v1.6.8 Recoil has destroyed gunplay

[WingWalker]

Man, this freaking guy...

There is nothing wrong with deviation, testing it last night for my own sanity after reading this thread...

With the AK-47 on Al Basrah....Running and jumping to totally exhaust myself then take a shot with absolutely no settle time at all...

... then shooting at bots at 50 meters +....

I was regularly killing bots within just 2 and 3 shots...

... which is less than 1 second per shot. I don't have a timer, but I'm pretty sure you can make at least 2 shots in 1 second.

I did this several times testing it for myself.

It is very repeatable, and anyone on here can go test it for themselves.

Originally Posted by UncleSmek

The recent changes to recoil has completely revamped gunplay and if weapons remain as disfunctional as they are, referring to the G3 mainly these kinds of updates are useless.

To the OP...

How can you be so owned just by the recoil of a rifle in PR?

I didn't even notice a significant difference, and I still don't.

[SemlerPDX]

Originally Posted by dcm

@semler
No. Deviation is and will always be a detrimental gameplay mechanic. Even the modern generation who plays games like fortnite and call of duty. They, themselves complain about the unfair nature of deviation in the newest games. The only games that do deviation right, are games where it is possible to work around it, especially for longer range aimed shots.

What makes PR great; is it's gameplay. In spite of all of PR's flaws(deviation being chief among them). Project Reality is still a fun and enjoyable game.

Does PR need improvements? Yes. Should certain gameplay mechanics be removed entirely? Maybe. Will our friend frontliner listen? Probably not.

It's not a flaw - it's a feature specifically designed and intentionally implemented. That's like saying the thing that makes lemon poppyseed muffins great is their deliciousness, in spite of the flaws of including lemons. It's an essential ingredient that is a core component of what make the thing what it is.

PR is what it is, feedback is awesome and helpful, but when it comes from a base of assumptions or (unintentional) ignorance, it can detract from the discussions that are more to the point of how things actually work and how they may be improved.

I'm certain that all the R-DEV's and R-CON's here appreciate criticism if it has a constructive purpose and intent, but angrily complaining about a failed engagement based on incorrect assumptions about the game mechanics and how they played into that engagement come across as whiney, and I doubt that is your intent. It's just a game - keep it constructive and try to assume that not everyone who disagrees with you is your enemy out to get you.

Deviation was not even the point of this thread, but recoil - OP noted the G3.... this went off the rails.

Originally Posted by dcm

...
The only games that do deviation right, are games where it is possible to work around it, especially for longer range aimed shots.

So, PR? Because last I checked, people are getting kills left and right, working around and with the deviation mechanics to achieve success - including longer range aimed shots. It is those who are unable to work around it or with it in order to succeed that seem to complain most that "it is impossible to work around it".

[CheeseToast]

Originally Posted by Grump/Gump.45

I naturally don't retain the information cause I have no reason to remember.

Does this apply to your snip? Because you strike me as a person who snip, so do you just not know how to?

/user infracted for insulting other members - Nate

[dcm]

Originally Posted by SemlerPDX

So, PR? Because last I checked, people are getting kills left and right, working around and with the deviation mechanics to achieve success - including longer range aimed shots. It is those who are unable to work around it or with it in order to succeed that seem to complain most that "it is impossible to work around it".

I believe you primarily play co-op? Co-Op and Deployment are two different things. Real people think, act and react differently than pre-programmed bots. What you may experience in co-op, may not reflect the reality of the situation on the ground of PR proper. Metaphorically speaking of course.

There is no way to accurately work within the deviation system to achieve success. It feels much too random and too unfair. Within the last few updates the gun play has become really bad. I do not believe it is solely because of the deviation system. Some value, somewhere, must have been tweaked, either intentionally or unintentionally. However the outcome is the same; as it manifests most visibly within the deviation system.

The deviation is so bad as of time of writing that you are able to; 'make an outline of bullets around an enemy and not him even once.' The new meta has become to 'Take a Knee.' Just recently on Musa Qala, I with an enfield wiped out half a british squad from 10m away because I was crouched. They all had fully automatic rifles and could not kill me, Because they were strafing from side to side. Not even the automatic rifleman was able to wound me. Every single one of them sprayed and prayed. I felt dirty and apologized for said kills as they were awarded to me unfairly. I should not have won that gun fight. Some people may say 'Well of course you played within the system.' Well in this case; the system is wrong.

But I believe the biggest flaw with the deviation system is that vehicles do not experience it the same way that infantry does. Vehicles are not penalized as drastically with deviation. It is not unheard of for a vehicle gunner to turn 180° and kill a target with perfect accuracy from extended ranges almost instantaneously. Sure vehicles experience over heating and some bullet spread. But that is an insignificant cost for perfect accuracy.


Apologies for the belated reply. It seems that some people do not like the truth be getting told, and look for any opportunity to remove 'dissidents.'

[[R-CON]​Frontliner]

Originally Posted by dcm

Just recently on Musa Qala, I camped a FOB with a Lee-Enfield and managed 4 kills because they spawned in one after the other and didn't know where I was.

Fixed that for you.

[dcm]

Originally Posted by Frontliner

Fixed that for you.

That's the thing. They knew exactly where I was. Came right at me too.

If I recall correctly. The fob was in the foxtrot 8 kp1 compound. I did not have clear line of sight to the fob. I saw a guy leave the gate and took a knee on the road. I shot him first. He returned fire but missed. Killed him. Went to investigate inside. Noticed the fob. Was about to plant a watercan. Second guy spawned in and I panicked. I fled back to my spot. I was watching the gate. Guy 2 tried peeking the corner. Shot him once in the arm. He returned fire. Suddenly behind him I see guy 3 begin firing and strafing to his right, map north. Shot him twice. Guys 2 and 4 come out right behind guy 3, together strafing and firing. I popped the machine gunner first. Then turned my attention to the last guy. Who I assume was guy 2. He was in the middle of reloading. Shot him twice. All shots of theirs missed. Now tell me how that aint some bullshit right there? I appreciate a good gunfight as much as the next guy. But that felt dirty. Like I had cheated somewhat.

[Killer2354]

Originally Posted by dcm

That's the thing. They knew exactly where I was. Came right at me too.

If I recall correctly. The fob was in the foxtrot 8 kp1 compound. I did not have clear line of sight to the fob. I saw a guy leave the gate and took a knee on the road. I shot him first. He returned fire but missed. Killed him. Went to investigate inside. Noticed the fob. Was about to plant a watercan. Second guy spawned in and I panicked. I fled back to my spot. I was watching the gate. Guy 2 tried peeking the corner. Shot him once in the arm. He returned fire. Suddenly behind him I see guy 3 begin firing and strafing to his right, map north. Shot him twice. Guys 2 and 4 come out right behind guy 3, together strafing and firing. I popped the machine gunner first. Then turned my attention to the last guy. Who I assume was guy 2. He was in the middle of reloading. Shot him twice. All shots of theirs missed. Now tell me how that aint some bullshit right there? I appreciate a good gunfight as much as the next guy. But that felt dirty. Like I had cheated somewhat.

You know, I hate to say it but it really sounds like they did that engagement entirely wrong. Unless they had been sprinting at you for an entire 5 seconds, even just AIMING and strafing at the same time puts most of your rounds on a human-sized target in this game at 15m. Even coming from a full sprint and just AIMING while still moving lands most of your rounds on a target at 20m with full auto. If you go from sprinting for 5 seconds and then just hip firing at 20m, you will be all over the place.

Seriously, you may be misrepresenting something. That, or they were completely panicing and actually just missing you the entire time. The ranges you are saying that these engagements are, deviation isn't really at play here. In fact, the only time I have crazy bloom is trying to fire with hip fire coming from a dead sprint.

Have a video of a quick test: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1292241139

[SemlerPDX]

Originally Posted by dcm

I believe you primarily play co-op? Co-Op and Deployment are two different things.

Wrong. I am a Server License Holder for a PR COOP Server, I've been running gaming servers (not just PR) for over a decade as an administrator of an online gaming community. My actual time in the PR game has more hours logged in Deployment than I have ever logged on our own COOP server. I am quite familiar with both game modes, and the mechanics of how the game works including systems such as deviation (and its evolution/refinement over the years), and where to find most of this data in the game files.

Also, the deviation system is exactly the same in COOP and Deployment. There is no difference, they are the same in that regard.

Originally Posted by dcm

There is no way to accurately work within the deviation system to achieve success. It feels much too random and too unfair. Within the last few updates the gun play has become really bad. I do not believe it is solely because of the deviation system. Some value, somewhere, must have been tweaked, either intentionally or unintentionally. However the outcome is the same; as it manifests most visibly within the deviation system.

Again, this is your opinion and your beliefs, not facts or the reality experienced by the vast majority of players. Players get kills just fine working within the deviation system every single day, and it is you who has an issue with it which you cannot elaborate beyond something "must have been tweaked".

Originally Posted by dcm

Apologies for the belated reply. It seems that some people do not like the truth be getting told, and look for any opportunity to remove 'dissidents.'

Again, your opinions are not facts, and this is waaaay off topic.... You were "banned for seven days for calls to violence / no-politics rule" and not for being a 'dissident' -- you'll get no sympathy when you take things to a level that requires this sort of moderation. It's just a game, again, keep it constructive and try to assume that not everyone who disagrees with you is your enemy out to get you.

Once again, this thread is about recoil, specifically the OP noted the G3

[[R-CON]​Frontliner]

"It's bullshit having somebody kill you after running while you had the upper hand!" - dcm
"It's bullshit I didn't die when people came at me running!" - same dude, different day

I'm not sure what kind of answer you're trying to get out of me, I'm just saying that you're trying to prove the point you're articulating with two instances that are literally the opposite of each other. Which is horseshit.
I'm also saying that your first telling of the story made it sound as though you were being engaged 1v4 and ended up winning "because deviation bad",
in reality however
you basically fought 4 separate 1v1s with a bunch of dudes
a.) who either didn't or can't aim for shit or didn't have time to shoot(#4),
b.) who came from the same doorway(which means they always came into view while they had to turn some 90 degrees to see you) and
c.) who likely didn't communicate with each other seeing the round finished about 15 seconds later and Brits were low on tickets anyways, "GG, let's just spawn in and go next quick".
The actual events, just like last time on Kozelsk, ended up being a wee bit different than what you made them out to be, and while I agree that the bolt actions are bad to have in a CQB fight in PR, I will also say that it's not like you didn't have some semblance of an advantage either.

In contrast to you my argument doesn't change however. Deviation punishes those who play incorrectly - and missing definately qualifies for that.

[Killer2354]

The only thing I will say regarding recoil is that firing the G3 in full auto with an optic is really punishing/hard to control. It's like this with any gun with an optic, but the G3 a bit more so. Irons or a dot is easier, but the horizontal recoil means you're more likely to miss than you would with a smaller projectile if you do decide to use full auto.

I'm not sure what to think. I run out of mouse space going down about twice as fast with the G3 as I do the M16A4 using optics. Irons/dots is the same, but I can just about squeeze out a full mag with the G3 without needing to reposition my mouse whereas I'm never worried about this with other weapons. This is probably the area that I can agree with - with where I normally keep my mouse, I can fire about ~6 rounds at range against the same target with a G3 w/optic before I have to reposition my mouse to keep firing. The M16A4 can do ~12 rounds before I would need to move my mouse. I still don't think this is overall bad, but I can understand why people believe the G3 is not a good gun.