v1.8.0 Public Testing of CnC Rework

[[R-CON]​CAS_ual_TY]

Hello,
this thread servers the purpose of feedback for all public tests of the new CnC rework. The gamemode has been reworked in an attempt to make it better for public gameplay. I have offered servers to test it in events. If those events prove successful we might get this rework to replace the current one in the game.
ITS NOT IN THE BASE GAME RIGHT NOW

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Description

CNCv2 does not feature capturable CPs. Instead, FOBs serve as objectives to attack and defend and they are revealed to the enemy (like caches in Insurgency). Because of that you are now allowed to place double the emplacements on a single FOB. Whenever you have active FOBs you make the enemy bleed tickets. The bleed an FOB inflicts on the enemy depends on how closely it is placed to the designated area of interest (marked on the map) with maximum effect if the FOB is placed inside of it. Having more FOBs than the enemy reduces the bleed you take from the enemy. Losing an FOB yields an instant ticket penalty. If you build too few FOBs you bleed stronger than your opponent but if you build too many you have a hard time defending them so this gamemode requires teams to balance out their attack and defense capabilities in a way that works for them. The gamemode features a 10 minutes grace period where no bleed is inflicted and no FOBs are revealed before that timer has run out.




Frequently Asked Questions

Why is the gamemode remade?

The current CNC gamemode is not being played publicly. There are multiple problems with it which can be seen as a reason, the primary ones are not enough spawn points and no clear indication of what you need to do. It also does not work well in events because it usually ends up with both teams defending their single point since attacking is a lot harder due to the reasons just explained.

What are the primary changes from the old gamemode?

You can now build multiple FOBs and you always bleed if the enemy has atleast a single FOB up (yes, both teams can bleed at the same time).

It says you can place double the amount of emplacements but i cannot place this TOW.

PR doesnt only limit the area around a FOB when it comes to the maximum amount of a certain emplacement but also limits the area around each emplacement. To place the TOW there may only be a single other TOW within 300m if your position. If you have 2 TOWs within 300m of you, you can not place it even if those TOWs belong to different FOBs.


So the team with more FOBs is bleeding less?

Usually, yes. However, there are scenarios where even if you have more FOBs than the enemy you are still bleeding more than them. This requires you to place all your FOBs in the corners of the map while your opponent places them inside the area of interest.


Does placing a FOB always increase the bleed on the enemy?

No. If you want to precisely know how the bleeding works, please read the exact description below or go to the end of this post for the exact bleed modifier.


Why is the bleeding mechanic so complicated?

There are multiple reasons why this is:

• Keep games within a certain minimum and maximum time period
• Balance attacking and defending
• Make the gamemode work in settings of both pub and event gameplay

How to maximize winning chances?

All you really need to know to win is this:

• Do not place your FOBs in corners
• Have more FOBs up than the enemy or destroy their FOBs quickly (= within 15min) after they get revealed

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This is the old (and precise) description:

Here is how the rework works:
- Build a FOB
- After the FOB has been enabled (= spawnable) once, a reveal timer (=2min) is started
- When the timer runs out, Attack and Defend markers are added to the FOBs
- If the game has not reached 10 minutes yet, the markers are delayed until then
- Attack marker is inaccurate for the attackers, up to 3 keypads off on each axis
- The FOB makes the enemies bleed while it is enabled (= spawnable)
- A FOB that was spawnable once and is removed entirely results in a ticket penalty of 30 tickets
- Demolishing a fob does not yield a ticket penalty if it does not disappear entirely
- Removing a FOB before it was spawnable (eg. to place it better) does not yield a ticket penalty
- The closer the FOB is to the center of the map, the stronger the ticket bleed
- If its within area of interest (marked by markers) the bleed modifier is maximized [see image]
- Fobs outside this area have their bleed modifier scale down linearly depending on distance
- Bleed modifier is actually smaller than 1 if its outside of the radius map-size/2 (only possible in the corners of the map) [see outer circle in image below]
- You can build multiple FOBs per team. If team A has 3 fobs and team B has 2 fobs, then the bleed of the one with the lesser fobs (= team B) is multiplied by the fraction of the numbers (= 2/3), i.e. the team with more FOBs has the bleed inflicted on them reduced.
- More fobs does not necessarily mean increased bleed modifier. Your bleed modifier is the average of all fobs, and then the above mentioned fraction is applied to that.

Thats it! Let me know what you think and please also relay whether or not you have been part of such a public test. Thank you!

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People have been asking me for the exact bleed modifier. Keep the bold text in mind.

base-bleed * average-bleed-modifier * min(1.0, your-fobs / their-fobs)
this is how much you inflict on the enemy. base bleed is 0.05 tickets per second. max modifier is 1.5

EDIT:

Since i keep getting asked, here even more details. But let me say this: Stop trying to cheese this. These values were chosen to result in roughly ~1h games. They werent chosen for any cheesing of maxing. As long as you have more fobs up than the enemy and your fobs arent too far away from the center you are winning.

average-bleed-modifier = the average bleed modifier of all your fobs
inside middle a fob has 1.5
up to 2nd circle a fob has 1.0
outside 2nd circle its less than 1.0
so this value is maximum 1.5

min(1.0, your-fobs / their-fobs) this part is dependent on fob amount

base-bleed this is 0.05 per second
the entire formula is how much you inflict on the enemy
if you have 0 fobs they dont bleed

EXAMPLE:
you have 3 fobs in the center (they all have max bleed modifier 1.5)
the enemy has 2 fobs around the outer circle, 1 with modifier 1.2, the other with 0.8.
The bleed you inflict on the enemy per second:

base-bleed * average-bleed-modifier * min(1.0, your-fobs / their-fobs) =
0.05 * (1.5+1.5+1.5)/3 * min(1.0, 3/2) =
0.05 * 1.5 * 1.0 =
0.075 tickets per second = 45 tickets per 10min

The bleed they inflict on you:

base-bleed * average-bleed-modifier * min(1.0, your-fobs / their-fobs) =
0.05 * (0.8+1.2)/2 * min(1.0, 2/3) =
0.05 * 1.0 * 2/3 =
0.0333~ tickets per second = 20 tickets per 10min

[[R-CON]​CAS_ual_TY]

Event on U777, 19:00 PRT, 20th of July 2024: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=154280

[[R-CON]​CAS_ual_TY]

Updated info to mention multiple FOBs being possible now.

[CG-Delta]

I've played PR since 2008 and I believe I've played CnC two times in that time. So I have a theory that the far majority of people who never vote CnC have never played it. I also think most of those who speak badly of it to newer players asking about it, also haven't played it, not knowing what they are talking about.
I for one, despite playing for 16 years, can say that I'm unqualified to say that the game-mode is in need of improvement or otherwise, or whether I like it. Some vote to see something new, most are urged against new.

So kudos for bringing it to light. A shame it is advertised as clan wars though. The new settings are probably unnecessary as the Manual's 7 lines of text, were never under critique during my (remembered) CnC play, as they weren't bothered to be read. (people didn't know what the game mode was about, and started disliking it already by that fact. ...answers to questions fell on deaf ears...)
But the new settings may work as rebranding, changing the thought "CnC bad" to "CnC playable again?" (narrative).
Specific critique: Removing the 1-FOB limit, so you can place, what 6 FOBs was a poor choice IMO. Gives me images of BF2 where every squad just go to what is the least contested of the 6 flags. Corrections 2x6 flags. That doesn't exactly promote a cohesive team, if they want to win, that is.

[[R-CON]​CAS_ual_TY]

As an ex community leader and server admin: CNC is not in a state where it is pub-playable right now. Thats the reason why it is played soo rarely.
There has been an ongoing discussion about it here: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=153751

There are multiple reasons why I decided to test multiple FOBs for now in the initial play tests:
- PR has some "Axioms" that players expect. One of them being 6 FOBs are placable on a given map. Changing this for a specific gamemode is not good.
- The primary goal is to make it pub playable. Now imagine some rando squad just building a FOB somewhere after the entire team already decided to build it somewhere else (but randos where faster).
- FOBs are your spawn points. More spawn points = better.
- Team cohesion doesnt get lost just because you can build multiple FOBs. You dont have to build multiple fobs if you take out the enemey FOBs quickly enough. Since you split up your defenses per FOB this because a balancing act which goes very deep especially on organised play.

And yes: The goal is also to make a rebranding. Not only to players, but also to admins who are the ones who chose the map and gamemode in the end.

[Wicca]

IMMA SIGN UP, where is the sign up button

[axytho]

Originally Posted by Wicca

IMMA SIGN UP, where is the sign up button

See the U777 discord: https://discord.gg/Z5gMhK4e

[Catmouse]

Interesting concept re rule changes.

I like the fact that the loss of a FOB gives a 30 ticket penalty. It is a nice incentive to attack, and to punush overstretching of defenses.

Just to clarify: Players can spawn on a FOB once it is active, and even if it is not revealed (via reveal timer trigger). The FOB is counted for bleed. Also, the FOB can be removed without penalty because unless the reveal timer has expired. Is this a loophole that can be used for deployment, or in order to incur small bleed incremements on the enemy?

Perhaps it is better in install the FOB penalty once the FOB has gone active.

[[R-CON]​CAS_ual_TY]

Originally Posted by Catmouse

Interesting concept re rule changes.

I like the fact that the loss of a FOB gives a 30 ticket penalty. It is a nice incentive to attack, and to punush overstretching of defenses.

Just to clarify: Players can spawn on a FOB once it is active, and even if it is not revealed (via reveal timer trigger). The FOB is counted for bleed. Also, the FOB can be removed without penalty because unless the reveal timer has expired. Is this a loophole that can be used for deployment, or in order to incur small bleed incremements on the enemy?

Perhaps it is better in install the FOB penalty once the FOB has gone active.

A FOB that has not been revealed has no objective reward or punishment involved, so both for inflicting bleed and for getting a penalty. You could use this loop hole to have a spawn point for a short period of time. Thats all, however. You can not make the enemy bleed with a FOB that was not revealed.

EDIT: What I also wanted to publicly mention: You can cheese a lot here. I have explained the mechanics very precisely and I see a lot of deep planning and discussions in some discord server(s). All you need to do is this: Have more FOBs up than the enemy and dont have your FOBs in the corner of the map.

EDIT2: A practical bleed example.
- Team A has 2 FOBs, all inside the middle circle. So the average bleed modifier is simply the max bleed modifier, which is 1.5
- Team B has 3 FOBs further outside close around the outer circle. Their average bleed modifier is 1.2
- Since Team B has 3 FOBs and Team A only has 2, the bleed of Team A is reduced and multiplied by 2/3, which results in 1.5*2/3=1.0. As such, Team A is currently losing.
- Team A can now build another Fob to get rid of this reduction. Or take out an enemy FOB. But every extra FOB you build needs to be defended.

Rule of thumb is: If you can not hold your FOB for atleast 10 minutes after it was revealed, the loss of the FOB inflicted more damage to you than its uptime did to the enemy. So having a dedicated QRF to attack enemy FOBs immediately after reveal is a good gameplan.

[Bonvi]

The name "bleed modifier" suggests that it's applied to some base bleed value. What is it?
And what's the resulting bleed in your example in tickets/second?