The future of Project Reality

[Grump/Gump.45]

So I have been looking at potential options for engines, turns out Unreal Engine does virtual reality. What we need is a final version of VR engine that just receives new software updates for new abilities, performance and smoothness.

This way we don't get stuck with an old engine version when there is another that could meet our needs better, go for 200-500 players. Maybe 1000-2000 depending on capabilities of equipment, networking and software as it gets better over time. War of Rights has been testing 500 players. Controls are getting better, waiting for the VR controller gloves for accurate dexterity.

Especially an engine that makes development easier with updates hands on VR development abilities, 2 players interacting and a coder giving inputs for different actions, so your hand isn't just going through the object or gear not making sounds.

We are talking for development green screens and green animation suits with tracking markers (those little body dots placed for CGI character conversion)

In positions like putting in body drag, crate drag, fast ropes, basic collision with force for sudden close quarters combat.

Gore art/animations, organs, accurate blood amounts. I would be impressed with exposed un-severed forearm muscles synced with finger movements. PlasmaLyte IV bags, medivac stretchers. Extra points for medic actions. Loading magazines, connecting ammo belts, driving, taking foliage from environment, carrying equipment, tuning radio channels, digging the earth with E-tool or explosion craters.

Doing realistic building frameworks, blast destruction and static collapse from realistic rubble support collapsing if its not sitting on a good pile.

Set a goal for starting in 2026 or earlier with a separate team. Build the factions, uniforms, weapons, some maps. Every game today like Squad started with just infantry fighting over a few maps then received updates. Build it and they will come.

[[R-MOD]Nate.]

Originally Posted by Grump/Gump.45

So I have been looking at potential options for engines, turns out Unreal Engine does virtual reality. What we need is a final version of VR engine that just receives new software updates for new abilities, performance and smoothness.

This way we don't get stuck with an old engine version when there is another that could meet our needs better, go for 200-500 players. Maybe 1000-2000 depending on capabilities of equipment, networking and software as it gets better over time. War of Rights has been testing 500 players. Controls are getting better, waiting for the VR controller gloves for accurate dexterity.

Especially an engine that makes development easier with updates hands on VR development abilities, 2 players interacting and a coder giving inputs for different actions, so your hand isn't just going through the object or gear not making sounds.

We are talking for development green screens and green animation suits with tracking markers (those little body dots placed for CGI character conversion)

In positions like putting in body drag, crate drag, fast ropes, basic collision with force for sudden close quarters combat.

Gore art/animations, organs, accurate blood amounts. I would be impressed with exposed un-severed forearm muscles synced with finger movements. PlasmaLyte IV bags, medivac stretchers. Extra points for medic actions. Loading magazines, connecting ammo belts, driving, taking foliage from environment, carrying equipment, tuning radio channels, digging the earth with E-tool or explosion craters.

Doing realistic building frameworks, blast destruction and static collapse from realistic rubble support collapsing if its not sitting on a good pile.

Set a goal for starting in 2026 or earlier with a separate team. Build the factions, uniforms, weapons, some maps. Every game today like Squad started with just infantry fighting over a few maps then received updates. Build it and they will come.

Is this an appeal to the BF2:PR Team or an announcement?

[SemlerPDX]

Originally Posted by Grump/Gump.45

So I have been looking at potential options for engines, turns out Unreal Engine does virtual reality. What we need is a final version of VR engine that just receives new software updates for new abilities, performance and smoothness.

This way we don't get stuck with an old engine version when there is another that could meet our needs better, go for 200-500 players. Maybe 1000-2000 depending on capabilities of equipment, networking and software as it gets better over time. War of Rights has been testing 500 players. Controls are getting better, waiting for the VR controller gloves for accurate dexterity.

Especially an engine that makes development easier with updates hands on VR development abilities, 2 players interacting and a coder giving inputs for different actions, so your hand isn't just going through the object or gear not making sounds.

We are talking for development green screens and green animation suits with tracking markers (those little body dots placed for CGI character conversion)

In positions like putting in body drag, crate drag, fast ropes, basic collision with force for sudden close quarters combat.

Gore art/animations, organs, accurate blood amounts. I would be impressed with exposed un-severed forearm muscles synced with finger movements. PlasmaLyte IV bags, medivac stretchers. Extra points for medic actions. Loading magazines, connecting ammo belts, driving, taking foliage from environment, carrying equipment, tuning radio channels, digging the earth with E-tool or explosion craters.

Doing realistic building frameworks, blast destruction and static collapse from realistic rubble support collapsing if its not sitting on a good pile.

Set a goal for starting in 2026 or earlier with a separate team. Build the factions, uniforms, weapons, some maps. Every game today like Squad started with just infantry fighting over a few maps then received updates. Build it and they will come.

I have used ChatGPT extensively as an amateur programming assistant since December, especially useful for brainstorming ideas and concepts, and developing proof of concept coding to test an idea.

I fed ChatGPT your post just to see what it would say, because in my humble opinion, it is unfettered musings of a gamer wanting extreme realism in a VR style multiplayer FPS, and not at all grounded in reality for what is possible for PR and also the PR Dev Team itself, or the limitations of what the PR Dev Team has to work with.

Here is what it said, and I think it raised some very important points in its assessment:

The quoted text contains a number of ambitious ideas and goals for game improvements, but it's important to recognize the technical challenges and limitations that would make achieving these goals infeasible for a small team of volunteer programmers working on a freeware project. Here are some salient reasons why these goals would be difficult to reach:

1. Unreal Engine's virtual reality capabilities: While Unreal Engine does offer virtual reality support, creating a VR game involves much more than just using the engine. It requires expertise in VR development, including optimizing performance, handling input and interaction, and ensuring smooth gameplay. Developing a VR game is a complex task that goes beyond simply using the engine's capabilities.
   
   
2. Scale and player count: The suggestion of having 200-500 players, or even 1000-2000 players depending on equipment and networking capabilities, is a significant technical challenge. Supporting a large number of players in a multiplayer game requires robust server infrastructure, efficient networking code, and optimized game mechanics. It's a demanding task that typically requires substantial resources and expertise.
   
   
3. Hand interaction and physics simulation: The idea of accurately simulating hand interactions and object physics in VR is a technically challenging endeavor. Achieving realistic hand-object interactions, accurate sound effects, and proper collision detection requires sophisticated physics simulations and complex algorithms. Implementing such features would require considerable programming knowledge and resources.
   
   
4. Motion capture and animation: The mention of green screens, animation suits, and tracking markers implies the desire for advanced motion capture and realistic animations. Motion capture technology is complex and requires specialized equipment, dedicated studio space, and skilled personnel. Implementing high-quality animations for realistic movements and interactions would be a significant undertaking for a small team of volunteer programmers.
   
   
5. Realism and detailed features: The proposed features, such as gore art/animations, accurate blood amounts, detailed organ simulations, and specific actions like loading magazines or connecting ammo belts, require meticulous attention to detail and extensive resources. Achieving a high level of realism in these aspects would involve complex graphics, physics, and AI systems, which can be time-consuming to develop even for professional teams with a significant budget.
   
   
6. Time and resources: The suggestion of starting development in 2026 or earlier with a separate team and gradually building up content is a recognition of the significant time and resources required for such a project. Even professional game development studios with experienced teams can take several years to develop and release a game with such complex features. Expecting a small team of volunteer programmers to accomplish these goals within a shorter timeframe, especially as unpaid hobbyists, is highly unrealistic.

While it's great to dream and brainstorm ideas for game improvements, it's important to have a realistic understanding of the technical challenges and limitations involved in game development. Making a game with the scope and complexity described in the quoted text would require a well-funded and experienced team of professionals working over an extended period of time.

*EDIT: On the note of "Build it and they will come", IME this does not at all match up with reality. If you build something, you need to promote it, support it, nurture and develop it, and hold its hand from day one until it stands on its own by showing others how cool it is and how fun it is to play, as most of these multiplayer games are NOT fun with just a few people when they are designed for large groups. Until it gets to that stage, given how fickle gamers are, it could be shunned for "X" reason(s) and lose all the momentum required to grow before it even starts - if a game fails its initial release, and is unable to garner a new wave through a major update, it will die before it ever gets a chance to live.

[never]

Originally Posted by Grump/Gump.45

So I have been looking at potential options for engines, turns out Unreal Engine does virtual reality. What we need is a final version of VR engine that just receives new software updates for new abilities, performance and smoothness.

https://youtu.be/rb8z2BMrd60

[Grump/Gump.45]

Originally Posted by SemlerPDX

*EDIT: On the note of "Build it and they will come", IME this does not at all match up with reality. If you build something, you need to promote it, support it, nurture and develop it, and hold its hand from day one until it stands on its own by showing others how cool it is and how fun it is to play, as most of these multiplayer games are NOT fun with just a few people when they are designed for large groups.

Until it gets to that stage, given how fickle gamers are, it could be shunned for "X" reason(s) and lose all the momentum required to grow before it even starts - if a game fails its initial release, and is unable to garner a new wave through a major update, it will die before it ever gets a chance to live.

Project Reality is different, it has its reputation already. Making its own game for VR based off a Project that was the first of its kind in 2005 doesn't seem so far fetched, its hard work and not easy. I found this game through BlueDrake like many others around the time it became standalone, he made the game seem like an hour long adventure in his videos.

As players we honestly need to do more building here on the greatest capabilities and tactics in this game. We make the trailer content, the videos and the content of the action itself. The cool stuff, then we need more cool stuff. Once we show we can build here, players doing more in-game to give people that enjoyable experience.

Videos like this showing people failing, not even against the enemy sometimes, breaking server rules which is game rules, ramming choppers, just dumb dialogue that isn't funny. They can't survive long enough to get good footage, driving right up to enemy or other nonsense on repeat with no correction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISyknebJ07E


Doesn't show the greatness of this game unlike high suppression Michael Bay rated explosions on attacks/defense with tactics and intense fighting. Then playing dead, climbing trees or any other tricks you can pull as body to body goes in combat.

Video above just brings trolls with no skills except with a few diamonds in there.

Even without showing the super FOBs maximum capability, reinforced by friendly armor mirroring in view with the Michael Bay stuff, it showcases a cool base. It comes in pieces like playing dead, climbing trees, combined arms breach, room clearing tactics. Which can then be put into a cheap player made trailer.

But you need orders for everything, its like being a movie director making a realistic movement movie, its not all neat formations, this simulates reality a 50 vs 50 skirmish. But with everyone suppressing you can feel like you are up against more. I have stored in my mind but don't use them all enough for long periods of time.

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The enjoyment is subjective to the players own creativity to fight and survive in ways he can enjoy. It ultimately comes from knowing tactics.

How to turn them into fast orders that give a sense of decision and freedom of movement constrained to in view of each other. No micro-managing, big picture managing of everything.

"Is it another FPS where you throw your simulated life away rushing fast without building and gathering assets" or is it the greatest teamwork military genre game you ever played?

That sense of ASMR the medic gives you when you first start playing, I feel it when our teams bullets are shepherding all the danger areas in view aimed at the height of a man keeping us safe.

A sense of satisfaction and safety without panicked managing, all done by teamwork with everyone somewhat on the same page.

Its not so much people don't want to play, I didn't even know about this game till 2015 when I googled and searched on YouTube "Realistic war simulation free".

When I started watching the videos in September of 2015, I didn't know it could run on my cheap little $250 laptop.

I didn't know it was standalone and free something I could download in that moment. I didn't know what "standalone" meant when I saw the word.

I was stuck watching BlueDrake from September 2015 till March 2016, I learned all the controls from him answering people who didn't know as they played.

I finally figured out how to download the game in March 2016. Ran smooth except for connection issues.

I researched basic stuff, found grazing fire in late 2016 or early 2017, it changed my life. I can't remember what I googled to find it. Researching requires knowing what you need to learn and look up.

It can run on cheap laptops, not as good as before. So its issues with accessing it, some people don't know what these terms mean and are console players like me all our life. Who didn't know anything like this existed and thought every video game developer was the same.

I always hated Call of Duty multiplayer, loved the story and action of the game till COD Ghosts.

People moved to Battlefield 3. Which I did under BF3, which I didn't like cause it was Call of Duty with unlimited sprint. '

But Battlefield 1943 was the best one, free with BF3. A game with 3 maps, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jimo and Wake Island. 2 factions, 3 kit types, 4 vehicle types, no medic.

But it was the best one they ever made, I used to make foxholes to fight from with the ground destruction. I played that the most at several peoples houses and mine

Then learning to enjoy it, which is why I put my tactics for people to see. Something new to try so they don't give up on it. Especially when they do things like lone wolfing.

Also more servers needed for more room, but when nobody experienced is there to teach tactics or show some maturity in play style approach it turns into another run and gun rush FPS.

Nothing new researched or turned into effective short orders that teach and instruct new concepts. It trains them in manipulation tactics in 10 seconds to 5 minutes.

I find a lot of kits with full grenades, smoke and not a single shot fired. I would rather shoot at an area.


(Note: No connection between late 2021- Fall/Autumn October 2023. It changed locations. The server is now in a swamp literally with its connection issues, wet cables, high population, bad data plumbing. Put it back in DC ASAP).

Aside from the satisfaction of playing dead and getting a kill winning that necessary gamble to not die where you would have. Climbing trees with enemies coming below you.

You can make it feel like the 2014 pace of the Eastern Europe conflict with small squads against each other or a full on combined arms breach with heavy asset suppression and synchronization by doing things at the right moment from information you see on friendly movements and intel on enemy location.

No other game has made me feel demoralized in the face of assets or large amounts of infantry, you know how people abandon the defense flag? I don't abandon defense flags and it makes me think a lot of these players who do have never defended a flag. I never see anyone stay as long as me.

Seeing the enemy doing what my team is doing, all attack and no defense. 30+ infantry coming on attack with assets hammering me with mortars, CAS and tank shells. I am the only one there. Its like when you learn experience CAS attack and then CAS chopper sounds programs you to hide. No wonder I climb trees and play dead.

Using empathy to what others have thought or felt in a situation like this. This game simulates PTSD of situations you normally wouldn't survive to get PTSD from.

This game is special, and PEOPLE DUMP ON IT and its growth for dumb reasons.

[RA::LUNG]

O.o .......