Lower Accuracy

[causticbeat]

Originally Posted by rico11b

Is this comment intended for me, or the guy that started the thread? You didn't quote anyone so I'm assuming it for the thread starter.

The thread starter. I havent read the post and dont really care to, but from reading other posts of yours I do respect your opinion. But to be honest this is one of those pissing threads that really wont have effect on game. I have full trust in the DEV team, both their ability and direction, and I think that the discussion in this thread is kind of irrelevant with that considered.

[Lampshade111]

Originally Posted by causticbeat

The thread starter. I havent read the post and dont really care to, but from reading other posts of yours I do respect your opinion. But to be honest this is one of those pissing threads that really wont have effect on game. I have full trust in the DEV team, both their ability and direction, and I think that the discussion in this thread is kind of irrelevant with that considered.

That sort of defeats the purpose of what is supposed to be a "community" mod. Developer worship is a waste of time and can only hurt the mod.

[Wolfe]

Before we start to load our scoped rifles and shoot each other, let's remember the point of this thread.

Regardless of experience in weaponry, the military, or whining, the truth remains that it's IMPOSSIBLE to run, get shot at, then turn, drop, and and aim at someone's head with a better then 70% chance to hit. If anyone thinks that ability should remain in the game because "weapons are that accurate" then I call bullshit and show me any story, picture, or video where that is the norm as much as it is in PR. Otherwise, that argument is over and the best solution I've heard to date is increasing the cone of fire while moving and requiring time for the cone to close to a point while kneeling, laying, or during firing.

As for scopes, it is my understanding that a lot of work has gone into modeling them into the game, and that irl, scopes are becoming more standard issue. Addressing the cone of fire will help in this area to make them more realistic and true to life.

As for zoom on open sights, even if the zoom is "slight", it should be removed. Not that I need to qualify the logic based on reality, but I will say that during my limited days of hunting, I always preferred the open sight rifle because it was more challenging than a scope, and I don't recall being given a slight zoom just because I lined up the iron sights to my eye. If in PR giving open sights a slight zoom is supposed to simulate something, what is it? And where is the simulation of stress, fear, and adrenaline running through your veins? Remove the zoom on open sights.

The bottom line is that weapons are very accurate in real life, and I've seen people with the ability to simultaneously toss up 8 clay pigeons and shoot them 1 at a time with a pump action shotgun before they hit the ground. I've seen snipers be less than 2" off the mark at over a mile out, and competition shooters draw their weapon and fire 8 shots in less than 2 seconds at a 4 inch target 50 meters out. These are all possible, but they are exceptions to the rule and should not be used as arguments to justify the current level of accuracy in PR.

[VipersGhost]

Look Wolf, I agree with you and get what you are getting at. I think most everyone does including the devs.

The slight zoom simulates closing one eye and focusing from what I'm told..I know when I bead down on an iron site it doesn't zoom but the world around me sure gets a LOT smaller. So this simulates this...the zoom doesn't do anything really anyways.

As far as player potential, previously we have never had an animator. This GREATLY limited PR development in areas like proning, and insta-aiming...maybe even weapon-sway. Now that Spearhead is here, there might be some possible solutions for these things...especially the insta-aim after proning. In the future weapons will have an animation similar to the support gun I think...this will prevent some of the gheyness you are reffering too. The things you are talking about aren't related to the accuracy of the guns, but more to the incredible abilities the players themselves have. Yes these are a problem, but hopefully we will see some changes for these in the future. Remember the game is .6...and a work in progress. No one is disagreeing with you and saying these aren't issues...its just that the solution is slow in coming and modeling in some random deviation beyond standard MOA etc etc is just a bad quick fix. So be patient, trust me the devs are well aware of this problem.

[Wolfe]

I hope you are correct about the dev's understanding this issue and wanting to make some modifications. From a player's perspective in relation to fun, fair, and realistic gameplay, accuracy is one of the last major hurdles to overcome with map design being the other.

And on a side note to all and with all due respect, we are all clearly enjoy PR and are passionate about it, otherwise we wouldn't be here discussing it in length. And, while it's easy to stand on the sidelines and tell the dev's what they should or should not do, reducing someone's point to "whining" is unproductive and rudely dismissive. If you disagree with someone's point, explain why. Let's keep the discussions within the idea, not directed at the indivudual.

[causticbeat]

Originally Posted by Lampshade111

That sort of defeats the purpose of what is supposed to be a "community" mod. Developer worship is a waste of time and can only hurt the mod.

its not even dev worship, its the fact that i can read the tester forums and see threads and threads discussing this in depth. they know what theyre fucking doing and it is being very closely scrutinized, not just "OH THIS IS WHAT WE SAY THIS IS WHAT GOES"

[causticbeat]

Originally Posted by Wolfe

Before we start to load our scoped rifles and shoot each other, let's remember the point of this thread.

Regardless of experience in weaponry, the military, or whining, the truth remains that it's IMPOSSIBLE to run, get shot at, then turn, drop, and and aim at someone's head with a better then 70% chance to hit. If anyone thinks that ability should remain in the game because "weapons are that accurate" then I call bullshit and show me any story, picture, or video where that is the norm as much as it is in PR. Otherwise, that argument is over and the best solution I've heard to date is increasing the cone of fire while moving and requiring time for the cone to close to a point while kneeling, laying, or during firing.

As for scopes, it is my understanding that a lot of work has gone into modeling them into the game, and that irl, scopes are becoming more standard issue. Addressing the cone of fire will help in this area to make them more realistic and true to life.

As for zoom on open sights, even if the zoom is "slight", it should be removed. Not that I need to qualify the logic based on reality, but I will say that during my limited days of hunting, I always preferred the open sight rifle because it was more challenging than a scope, and I don't recall being given a slight zoom just because I lined up the iron sights to my eye. If in PR giving open sights a slight zoom is supposed to simulate something, what is it? And where is the simulation of stress, fear, and adrenaline running through your veins? Remove the zoom on open sights.

The bottom line is that weapons are very accurate in real life, and I've seen people with the ability to simultaneously toss up 8 clay pigeons and shoot them 1 at a time with a pump action shotgun before they hit the ground. I've seen snipers be less than 2" off the mark at over a mile out, and competition shooters draw their weapon and fire 8 shots in less than 2 seconds at a 4 inch target 50 meters out. These are all possible, but they are exceptions to the rule and should not be used as arguments to justify the current level of accuracy in PR.

Honestly, I do see where youre coming from, and im just saying that if we had fucking 3d weapons all of this would be solved, but bf2 cant do it like Inf so its just not even a realistic idea. I see what youre saying regarding it being to easy to "twitch play" and run and duck and etc and fire perfect right after. but all of the prettys that make games like inf and RO so great just cant be done with bf2. And while the soldiers may be over accurate, it only pushes the gameplay in the correct direction. Even if the guns are deadly, thats good. use tactics, not trying to just spray everything you see.

[Rico11b]

Originally Posted by causticbeat

The thread starter. I havent read the post and dont really care to, but from reading other posts of yours I do respect your opinion. But to be honest this is one of those pissing threads that really wont have effect on game. I have full trust in the DEV team, both their ability and direction, and I think that the discussion in this thread is kind of irrelevant with that considered.

You are correct, this is generally a pissing thread like so many others before it. I have much trust in the Devs as well. I'm sure in the end PR will mature into one hell of a Mod, what will sport all the realism that the engine can hold. It is already one hell of a mod.

[causticbeat]

And on it being a community mod, in my opinion, is based off of your ability to do something, or the drive to learn to do something. Not to sound coming off as very over it, but one of the amazing thing about the communitys has been players becoming more and more involved, and learning as they go. Its not the suggestion forum that makes changes, its the people who have the drive to learn about the mod and the actual techical and engineering implications of their addition to the mod. Two that come to mind are Jaymz and Geze, who have both have actually taken to learning new skills and have contributed both amazingly.

[indigo|blade]

Originally Posted by Wolfe

Exactly. An infantryman running up a steep hill at full speed then insta drops to a knee and 1 shots you in the head. Yeeeeah.

This looks like discipline under fire to me. The MEC, BCST and USMC would all be trained well enough(and in addition to combat experience) to react in this manner when coming under fire. Your statement has no merit.

When I come under fire the first thing I do is drop to one knee and return fire; if you're standing still or (/gasp) lying prone a head shot is not uncommon.

I suggest you hit your target with the first trigger pull.

Originally Posted by Wolfe

These are all possible, but they are exceptions to the rule and should not be used as arguments to justify the current level of accuracy in PR.

I would argue that most of the best marksmen in the world don't compete internationally(or otherwise) at all and are buried in various militaries around the world, Wolfe. Shots like these, while much harder in a combat situation, are made on a consistent basis by our men in uniform.