NATO tanks reload faster than Russians and Chinese tanks?

[Nosferatu]

It would be cool to have dynamic reload speed for tanks with manual reload, but it's not possible IIRC.
T-72 has auto-loader speed 7 seconds and that is what reflected in first post, T-90 has basically same auto-loader with same speed. Same goes for Type 98 as for T-72 clone. That it something I can confirm.

As for reload speed on Western tanks - I believe those are optimistic numbers, but I also trust assertions of my fellow MAs from USA and Europe.

[ComradeHX]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Nosferatu

It would be cool to have dynamic reload speed for tanks with manual reload, but it's not possible IIRC.
T-72 has auto-loader speed 7 seconds and that is what reflected in first post, T-90 has basically same auto-loader with same speed. Same goes for Type 98 as for T-72 clone. That it something I can confirm.

As for reload speed on Western tanks - I believe those are optimistic numbers, but I also trust assertions of my fellow MAs from USA and Europe.

Then I guess we need a buff to reload time of T-90/T-72/Type 98.

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]M42 Zwilling

Most Russian/Chinese tanks have autoloaders. Rapid firing is more sustainable with autoloaders (no human loader to get tired), but manual loading, which is used by most NATO tanks, can be much faster depending on crew skill; if I remember right some Merkava crews have even been known to fire at over 20 rounds per minute for very short periods.

On a side note, the value set ObjectTemplate.ammo.minimumTimeUntilReload does not represent the actual reload time on the tanks. It's actually one second longer than that.

[Ninja2dan]

Manual loaders (aka humans) will usually load shells in an MBT at a slightly slower rate "overall" than auto-loaders, but it really depends on a variety of factors. With the auto-loaders it's really going to depend on the specific vehicle and how its loading system is configured.

For example, some of the auto-loading systems I've seen will wait until the gun is fired before grabbing another round to load up, while a human loader can manually grab the next round in anticipation of reloading. On the other hand, auto-loaders don't get tired, hungry, thirsty, sore, scared, or have to take a shit. Over extended periods, a manual loader is likely to have reduced reload times.

Auto-loaders do require some PMCS though, and can always have a mechanical failure. If a human loader "breaks", such as taking injury or having some other reason for being unable to perform their job, you might have the option to swap out crew such as the TC taking over loading. But a mechanical failure/jam of an auto-loader means you're shit out of luck until it's repaired or unjammed.


As for the actual times used for PR, I thought those times were discussed a while back in a few other posts and the times being used were those determined to best match up with "IRL" counterparts as well as offering a fair balancing of the game. If that's incorrect now, and times have been adjusted outside of their desired values, then you might want to consider fixing it.

As others have stated, the game doesn't currently allow you to have dynamic load speeds based on desired factors such as crew morale, health, etc. At the same time, you're unable to simulate failures or jams in the auto-loaders. So for both, best option is to simply use their "perfect" rates of reload times.

[tankninja1]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Nosferatu

As for reload speed on Western tanks - I believe those are optimistic numbers, but I also trust assertions of my fellow MAs from USA and Europe.

Actually the reload time on the Western MBTs falls in the middle of the acceptable range for qualifying. On the Abrams a normal/great reloading time, by more experienced loaders, is 5 seconds, but I think the maximum to pass the loading test is 6-7 seconds. I would assume the loading times for other NATO tanks is about the same since they all now use basically the same gun (but different lengths) and the same ammo. The Challenger I know used to take longer to load (7-8 seconds) but the British have swapped some or all of their rifled cannons to the NATO cannon that is on the Leopard A6. As for the Leclerc that is the only NATO tank with its own unique cannon and auto-loader and I know very little about the whole system.

I would say that tanks can be left alone. Tanks seem very well balanced, thanks in part to the buffed armor stats on all tanks with a T in the name. Remember back in .95 or sooner when many of the "T" series tanks were easy to 1-shot kill.

Complete side note, might need a bug report, but some tanks (Abrams, Leclerc) can fire 1/4-1/2 a second sooner that the "loaded" sound indicates.

Originally Posted by Roque_THE_GAMER

, the Leclerc will win if he hit all the shoots from the side and also the T-72 still have one hit kill spots(i will do a bug report soon)

To be fair most tanks have a one hit kill spot, usually when you hit spots on the top of the turret. Most tanks will become disabled, or dead, with an accurate shot below the turret and above the hull.

[Rudd]

If the numbers are middle ground then it's probably ok, since most tanks will engage from stationary in PR since we dont have FCSs and all that jazz.

[Nosferatu]

We talk about actual war, pressuring situation, terrain that is far from range conditions, fatigue etc.

I suggest to add 1 sec to loading time of tanks with manual load. Except T-62, it's already too damn high.

[Rudd]

it's already too damn high.

yeah why not

[ComradeHX]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Nosferatu

We talk about actual war, pressuring situation, terrain that is far from range conditions, fatigue etc.

I suggest to add 1 sec to loading time of tanks with manual load. Except T-62, it's already too damn high.

T-62 needs the ATGM.

[Roque_THE_GAMER]

Originally Posted by ComradeHX

T-62 needs the ATGM.

so we need a T-62M version but Historically only Russia used this and that's gonna be more work tho the devs do.

[Hurricane]

Human loaders ARE faster than autoloaders in most combat scenarios. Yes, of course they get tired, but I have yet to see a scenario where the loader would load round after round as fast as he can for 2 minutes straight. That would pretty much empty the ammo carried by a tank. Usually it's a few rounds as fast as possible until a target is destroyed and the tank ceases fire.

Also what people here forget about autoloaders is that depending of the orientation of the turret, it takes longer to load the round in reality, and that the gun needs to be set to a fixed elevation so the round can be loaded, then re-aligned at the target. The best reload times for autoloaders are of course measured under ideal circumstances. Another disadvantage of autoloaders is that they are nowhere near as flexible as human loaders when it comes to firing different types of ammunition.

All of this is hard to project into the game, so overall I think the longer reload times of T-xx tanks is justified. Especially if you consider how powerful those gun-launched ATGMs are in PR, while in reality there advantage over sabots is highly debatable. If PR was to display 100% realistic combat, the T-72M would get wrecked by NATO tanks every. single. time. And likely with only one shot, too.

Originally Posted by tankninja1

I would assume the loading times for other NATO tanks is about the same since they all now use basically the same gun (but different lengths) and the same ammo. The Challenger I know used to take longer to load (7-8 seconds) but the British have swapped some or all of their rifled cannons to the NATO cannon that is on the Leopard A6. As for the Leclerc that is the only NATO tank with its own unique cannon and auto-loader and I know very little about the whole system.

To be fair most tanks have a one hit kill spot, usually when you hit spots on the top of the turret. Most tanks will become disabled, or dead, with an accurate shot below the turret and above the hull.

The Challenger 2 still uses the L30 rifled gun. One tank was fitted with a Rheinmetall L/55 for testing purposes, and it will possibly replace the L30 in the future. However, other than that one tank used for trials, there are no Challys with a 120mm smoothbore gun.
AFAIK the one-shot-spots of tanks ingame (hatches, periscopes) have been fixed already.