Lock-on Missiles (AA & Jets)

[joethepro36]

It just seems far more simple to remove the lock-on system, which I see no value in game play wise.

The lock on system makes hitting horizontally moving targets easy to hit as opposed to bordline impossible. Also makes it so I can hit a fast jet after 2 seconds or so of looking at him while on the move.

The greatest disadvantage of cannon compared to aa is it's response time, if I see a fast jet moving at an awkward angle I have to think about compensating for lead which entails only a single short burst usually. A single aa missile will certainly hit (provded no flares) while a burst will get a few hits at best provided the aircraft is moving in a straight line. I'm basing this on the average 600-800m pass with an aircraft moving in a single direction horizontally and you are perpendicular.

It's too much to factor in speed, direction and distance into your head within 2 seconds of sight of an object in order to fire an accurate burst. I am not a computer and I typically sight the aircraft about a 1/3rd of the way into a pass past me.

[Snazz]

^So basically you recognize that lock-on weapons make it easy, but assume without them it's borderline impossible.

I respectfully disagree on the notion of it being borderline impossible.

It certainly would more challenging than it is now and that's what I'm interested in essentially.

Any thoughts on other aircraft (inc. helis), or dogfights?

[Peeta]

I agree with joe.

[joethepro36]

Borderline impossible because taking into account lead is extremely difficult in most passes. An aircraft taking you on directly is easy and everyone gets those fools, an aircraft at range flying in a loop the loop while firing rockets at a target on the ground, isn't going to get hit without luck.

Helicopters are fine, they get torn apart by cannons at the moment (even .50s) because of their lower speed and tendency to hover.

Dogfights are a little more debatable as the cannons do a lot of damage quickly, but they never really get used. I agree with air to air missiles being a little less useful to actually improve the whole dogfighting aspect. At the moment it's a bit point and click when you see them as opposed to tailing them and taking your time to get them at the right moment.

Ground forces do not have the luxury of engagement times longer than a few seconds so their aa should stay the same.

What I'm really trying to say through all this is that I think aa missiles are fine as they are, but there is room for cannons. The missiles should always have the primary role without a doubt but cannons on the aa vehicles should get proxy rounds in addition to missiles.

[Raic]

Originally Posted by Snazz

It's like you've never played another BF game/mod or have been playing vBF2/PR so long that you can't get your mind around aiming yourself.

Tell me another game/mod where air vehicles actually go with the same speed as in PR, you pretty much can't. Exception being simulations. And while your saying that its too easy to use AA how bout other way around? Without effective AA (and AA is going to be ineffective if we take rockets out) skill level needed to stay alive with choppers and jets is going fall down. And unless there is some damn badass guys in the AAs its going to be rape after rape.

And you clearly have not used the AA against pilot with half a brain, the flares work prefectly if you use them like they're designed to, only problem I'd say is that theres not enough and assets can't stay over hostile territory longer than some 30 seconds.

[Spieler]

Dont say that ground cannons arent effective against aircrafts. Russian pilots flying SU-25 in Chechnya had very big problems whith chechens shooting even from PKMs!! Not difficult to imagine what can do more powefull gun. So it is not question of efficiency, it is adout realization it in PR on BF2 engine. I think it would be very hard to do.

[Snazz]

Originally Posted by Raic

Tell me another game/mod where air vehicles actually go with the same speed as in PR, you pretty much can't.

Both Desert Combat (BF1942) and Desert Conflict (BF2) have fast fighter jets and no lock on missiles, the fighter jets in those mods are also more agile.

Originally Posted by Raic

And while your saying that its too easy to use AA how bout other way around?

Operating aircraft effectively is far more demanding then using lock-on AA, don't even bother trying to tell me it's balanced.

Originally Posted by Raic

Without effective AA (and AA is going to be ineffective if we take rockets out) skill level needed to stay alive with choppers and jets is going fall down. And unless there is some damn badass guys in the AAs its going to be rape after rape.

What Joe's said in other words, which I still disagree with.

Originally Posted by Raic

And you clearly have not used the AA against pilot with half a brain, the flares work prefectly if you use them like they're designed to.

I don't care what you preconceive of my experience, or how you use flares.

[0blivi0us]

i Agree with AA needing to be nerfed a LOT. It's way to easy. But eliminating missiles all together no.
It will have to be balanced out a lot mroe then it is now.

Flying a jet effectivly is hard even without the AA shooting your paperplane to shreds.
Either make the missles a lot less sensitive so they dont lock that well.
Or give planes more flares, i donno.

But yes i completly agree with the need for balance.
What you see now is that most servers take out the Jet Version of Kashan out of their list because when planes go up, they're shot down within minutess.

[Snazz]

Well not necessarily eliminating missiles, just eliminating the lock-on guidance.

Proximity fused weapons (shells and/or missiles) would be less difficult to score hits with, yet still be more demanding then lock-on weapons.

Then you just have to tweak the proximity.

[burghUK]

This just sounds like a rant from someone who gets owned by AA alot.

I really enjoy AA , figuring out the right time to fire to get a perfect hit n a heli,aircraft does require some skill. I disagree with everything you just said a dumbed down PR is frankly a sh*t PR.