Qinling needs MAJOR revamp.

[Rhino]

Originally Posted by Wolfe

Any map with more vehicles than players creates a problem.

well there is a perfect match of vehicles for 64 players, but ye saying that the server is not always full with 64 players and when its 1/2 full or w/e it dose cause problems I agree. That is a good point.

[space]

Dont play it much as I prefer infantry maps , but it does seem that a large area on in the West is underused.
Also the Mine and Village flags do seem to be capped backwards and forwards rather boringly - maybe an extra flag would make a difference.
How about a couple more quads/landys/bikes, AT and AA kits to give the infantry a bit more of a look in?

It might just be a case of horses for courses. I f'ing love Bi Ming (even when it was in the dark!) and yet a fair few people on here seem to hate that map.

[mammikoura]

This is an awesome map for vehicles... and well.. not so awesome for infantry. I rarely play it since I prefer to play as infantry but we need both kinds of maps in pr. I don't think this map needs a major revamp, maybe a few more transports (another transport heli is a great idea) and it should be good.

[charliegrs]

has it ever occured to anyone that having the map so huge is important for the planes since they fly so fast they would normally be flying out of bounds but on a map like qinling they can concentrate more on bombing/dogfighting than having to constantly pull u turns to not go out of bounds. thats probly the reason for the vacant areas on the edges of the map.

[Rhino]

Originally Posted by charliegrs

has it ever occured to anyone that having the map so huge is important for the planes since they fly so fast they would normally be flying out of bounds but on a map like qinling they can concentrate more on bombing/dogfighting than having to constantly pull u turns to not go out of bounds. thats probly the reason for the vacant areas on the edges of the map.

yep, what I said in my first post.

[PRC_Heavy_Z]

I like this map, it's open and gives room for more thinking rather than a mad dash to the nearest flag.

Though the only grudge I've got against this map (and Al Kufrah) is the Challenger issue.

Not to get into a huge childish egotistical sissy fight but is it realistic to make the challengers that powerful? If the capabilities of the C2 reflects their real life counter parts then what about the T-90's or ZTZ98's? Is there any evidence that supports C2 having such a advantage?

If not than how about balancing them all for the sake of game play and the lack of information?

[Razick]

How about a map with the 340 Challengers in service vs 2000 T-98s. Seems about right. Of course we will have to scale that down but you get my point.

[Wolfe]

The map has fun toys, there's no question about that, but it suffers from three major problems:

1)+vehicles = -infantry
Because there are so many vehicles and because the map layout itself is not infantry friendly (more on this in a moment), most players refuse to play infantry and it's difficult to find more than 1 infantry squad per side. Like it or not, and regardless of how many vehicles exist, it takes infantry to capture and secure a flag, not vehicles. Sure, you can cap flags with vehicles but all it takes is one engineer to disrupt it. As a result, vehicles tend to stay away from flags as they wait for the infantry squad to move in... except infantry is a rare commodity.

Now, Kashan also has many vehicles and (for the most part) is not infantry friendly BUT the central 2 bunker areas prevent heavy vehicles from entering, thereby allowing infantry to fight each other without worrying about an easy slaughter. As a result, more people play infantry on Kashan because at least part of the map allows for it, which in turn helps to cap other flags because infantry squads are present. Most of the time. On Quiling, this is not the case and very few people choose to play infantry.

2) The "flag bowl" effect
This refers to flags that are either sunken into the terrain or where flags are immediately surrounded by tall hills, essentially creating a flag that sits in a "bowl". Quiling has both; a sunken flag (mine) and surrounding hills (all other flags). What's wrong with this? Basically it's certain death for infantry who are nearly defenseless against snipers or vehicles laying in wait. It's like sitting on the 50 yard line of a football stadium and trying to hide from the enemy sitting up hight in the seats. Defensively, it's nearly impossible to hold a flag with terrain like that.

3) The "sea-saw" effect
Because of the above two issues, flags are too difficult to defend and too easily re-captured. As a result, a "sea-saw" effect begins, where one side captures flag 1 but loses flag 2. After 10-15 minutes they recapture flag 2 then lose flag 1. Back and forth it goes. Hardly fun.

---

Too many vehicles
+
anti-infantry terrain
=
near 0 infantry squads
=
poor flag defense
=
merry-go-round flag captures
=
frustrated players who disconnect when Quiling comes up in the map list.

[Rhino]

Originally Posted by Wolfe

The map has fun toys, there's no question about that, but it suffers from three major problems:

1)+vehicles = -infantry
Because there are so many vehicles and because the map layout itself is not infantry friendly (more on this in a moment), most players refuse to play infantry and it's difficult to find more than 1 infantry squad per side. Like it or not, and regardless of how many vehicles exist, it takes infantry to capture and secure a flag, not vehicles. Sure, you can cap flags with vehicles but all it takes is one engineer to disrupt it. As a result, vehicles tend to stay away from flags as they wait for the infantry squad to move in... except infantry is a rare commodity.

Now, Kashan also has many vehicles and (for the most part) is not infantry friendly BUT the central 2 bunker areas prevent heavy vehicles from entering, thereby allowing infantry to fight each other without worrying about an easy slaughter. As a result, more people play infantry on Kashan because at least part of the map allows for it, which in turn helps to cap other flags because infantry squads are present. Most of the time. On Quiling, this is not the case and very few people choose to play infantry.

2) The "flag bowl" effect
This refers to flags that are either sunken into the terrain or where flags are immediately surrounded by tall hills, essentially creating a flag that sits in a "bowl". Quiling has both; a sunken flag (mine) and surrounding hills (all other flags). What's wrong with this? Basically it's certain death for infantry who are nearly defenseless against snipers or vehicles laying in wait. It's like sitting on the 50 yard line of a football stadium and trying to hide from the enemy sitting up hight in the seats. Defensively, it's nearly impossible to hold a flag with terrain like that.

3) The "sea-saw" effect
Because of the above two issues, flags are too difficult to defend and too easily re-captured. As a result, a "sea-saw" effect begins, where one side captures flag 1 but loses flag 2. After 10-15 minutes they recapture flag 2 then lose flag 1. Back and forth it goes. Hardly fun.

---

Too many vehicles
+
anti-infantry terrain
=
near 0 infantry squads
=
poor flag defense
=
merry-go-round flag captures
=
frustrated players who disconnect when Quiling comes up in the map list.

good feedback, cheers

[PRC_Heavy_Z]

Originally Posted by Razick

How about a map with the 340 Challengers in service vs 2000 T-98s. Seems about right. Of course we will have to scale that down but you get my point.

Or how about making the hit points and damage the same