|
PR:BF2 Feedback Post your feedback on the current Project Reality release (including SinglePlayer). |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
2021-10-31, 10:52 | #11 |
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 350
United States of America
|
Re: Civilian penalties not apparent enough
As much as I love punishing rabid civi killers. I think it's kinda fucked that they get executed for killing 5 civis.
|
2021-11-06, 22:39 | #12 | |
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 344
United States of America
|
Re: Civilian penalties not apparent enough
Quote:
I never hesitate to kill a civi, the penalty never has deterred me. The intelligence points really isn't noticeable. Its there, but there is nothing telling anyone when it happens and there is no feeling of how bad it is. The longer spawn time and the negative score (that doesn't matter) is worth stopping whatever it is the civi is doing, or just putting him down for hopping around like a moron. The punishment would have to be that I am ista-killed when I kill a civi. That is really the only thing people would care about. After I walk half way across the map with a kit I've waited for I'm not going to risk killing a Civi to have to start allover again. That would also make being a civi really interesting for game play. Maybe have problems if it can't be limited to just small arms kits. For instance an APC couldn't just spray HE rounds allover an area to just kill one guy he saw. Having the gunner die would basically make the CAS or Tank have to go pick him back up somewhere, and Jets would just be lost with most bombs they drop. But maybe that would be ok if Civi became a limited kit. One tricky civi could easily cost a team a major assets and points. I wouldn't mind it. Is this true? I've never killed 5 in a row I guess. | |
Last edited by WingWalker; 2021-11-06 at 22:52..
|
2021-11-23, 10:17 | #13 | |
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 471
Ireland
|
Re: Civilian penalties not apparent enough
Quote:
That means no special kit requests (MG, HAT, Marksmen, Sniper, spotter, Combat engineer) for 30 minutes for whole squad for civilian kill, extending into if they leave the squad. Have a full list of penalties pop up or have it be so many people go read the manual to look. Have it punish the whole squads points, spawn timers, kit requests so peer pressure to not kill civilians kicks in. -10 intel points per civilian killed, why give BLUFOR +10 for arrest but -5 for killing civilian. Make it even 5 points each side, 10 points is too fast. All it takes is a few new or dumb guys running around as civilians screw us over by getting arrested with 10 points, 3 civilians is 30 points and we cant control people due to their low IQ or language barrier. "How do you be civilian?" is worst question ever, they didn't even read the manual and mess up that insurgency round or every time they do it. We cant even protect roadblocks as civilian human shields due to this lack of apparent penalties. Roadblocks can be backed up by IED, civilians, fighters, emplaced assets, civilian vehicles that cost intel. But the tank doesn't care. We need the capability to stand in front of them, that capability only comes from penalty risk. Which includes not allowing the breacher shotgun kit to instant arrest anymore, only remove stamina. Hands on arrests only assisted by shotgun to allow humorous protests of throwing rocks, countered by crowd control tactics. Civilians have many capabilities and are very valuable. Positioning right allows you to do 10 things at once from the spot you pick in view of cache and friendly. This tactical value should be reflected by the penalties. 1.) Be bait for enemy to get killed 2.) Enemy that kills civilian will double check/hesitate to shoot armed guys 3.) Be in view of cache as the most open distraction 4.) Taunt enemy 5.) Prevent roadblocks from being blown up as human shield 6.) Allow armed friendly to cross with knife out 7.) Make enemy lose intel 8.) Provide early warning call outs Many more specific uses of civilian, could stand in front of a car being put infront of roadblock that needs to wait 1 minute to become civilian car so enemy doesnt kill it early. | |
Last edited by Grump/Gump.45; 2021-11-23 at 10:33..
|
2021-11-23, 18:43 | #14 |
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 178
United States of America
|
Re: Civilian penalties not apparent enough
Yes. Yes it is. Case in point where my squad and I killed cas with this feature. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_auolCJoUks I kinda think the number of civis a blufor soldier has to kill to get executed should be lowered to 3, and the timer that resets that counter increased from 5 to 15 minutes. This will be as beneficial to blufor as it is harmful, as the psychos that harm their team by not caring about shooting civilians have their sprees cut short, thus costing their team less intel points in the long run, while still being pretty fun for civilians. Making the warning text more clear in this regard would also be a good idea. |
2021-11-24, 10:08 | #15 | |
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 471
Ireland
|
Re: Civilian penalties not apparent enough
Quote:
If 1-5 bad civilians not even trying to escape, just there for their own fun screwing insurgent team over by getting arrested can make the cache known. Then that should be balanced by equally punishing the BLUFOR for their few bad players when they kill civilians. Its very un-balanced tool wise and un-even penalties. Why is it when we martyr its -5 intel points but they arrest for +10, sometimes with all the work being done by one man a ranged shotgun in a game about teamwork. They have less penalty for killing civilians and more reward for arresting capability with easier tools like shotgun instant arrest. Shotgun should remove full stamina bar to assist in arrest, make them not able to run. Shotgun un-realistically removing teamwork potential for arrests from BLUFOR, if they want civilian off the roof they need to use rope and tactics, not cheat with shotgun then not retrieve the civilian. Not realistic. Giving all the teamwork on a crowd of civilians to one guy with a shotgun means civilians have to scatter. We cant gather crowds, meaning more aimless civilian new players screwing us over with lack of penalties. The tactic for civilians should be strength in the crowd protected from BLUFOR rushing to arrest. The counter tactic for BLUFOR should be armor security to not let fighters peek for thermal FLIR on armor allowing freedom to arrest civilians. That is teamwork balance determined by the team, not the games functions. Shotgun removes potential from the game for teamwork, humor, player retention and new tactics to introduce to game. Due to this one function, civilians cant hold rock throwing protests that would require crowd control tactics and armor security for infantry to work on arresting civilians while under fire from insurgent iron sight snipers. Realism tactics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fFLsjb_UJY | |
Last edited by Grump/Gump.45; 2022-01-01 at 20:08..
|
2021-11-24, 18:41 | #16 |
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 1
Brazil
|
Re: Civilian penalties not apparent enough
@Grump
Also, it seems the players don't know the importance of to arrest or get martyr as civilian. Insurgency maps is getting almost predictable who is going to win (BLUFOR in majority layouts). I believe, to balance it, we need "encourage" to play as civilians, making it worth to play as. Also more penalty to BLUFOR player when he kill them. I'm trying to make a new post suggesting to add score points to civilian which dies as martyr and subtract it if he get arrest. Due this game is not a "only-for-kills arcade", it could make a good difference. Unfortunately i can't make a new post (idk why). |
2021-11-24, 23:31 | #17 | ||
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 344
United States of America
|
Re: Civilian penalties not apparent enough
Quote:
Maybe 50% of the time. Quote:
I don't know what the official thought is on this, but I think it would be nice to have a point system for martyrs. It take more commitment and thought than just running and gunning. | ||
2021-11-28, 18:41 | #18 | |
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 91
Germany
|
Re: Civilian penalties not apparent enough
Quote:
Also for CAS, baiting civilians would become a strong strategy, so CAS would be forced to work together closely with ground troops - only hitting select, confirmed targets. No more blindly firing a barrage of rockets at the cache, RTB, and repeat. It would make CAS gameplay more tactical imo, and yes some CAS will die due to pilot being executed, but generally CAS pilots are pretty responsible unlike your average INF or APC player so I think they will adapt. And as I said I want that every time you kill a civilian it gives you a detailed warning message about what punishments it brings. Some indicator that tells me wether I'm martyrable as a civilian would also be a VERY welcomed mechanic, there is nothing more frustrating than dying as a civilian only to find out you were "killed for helping the insurgency" Also, just an addition - I think these civilian changes would be greatly complemented by a civilian RKG kit - an armed kit that has only two RKG grenades and no other weapons, but from the outside looks nearly identical to a civilian. It would make Humvee gunners nervous every time they see a civilian on the side of the road, having to keep an eye on them to see if he pulls out an RKG (which takes around 2 seconds so gunner would have some time to react) | |
Last edited by rogdozz; 2021-11-28 at 18:52..
|
2021-11-28, 18:50 | #19 | |
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 91
Germany
|
Re: Civilian penalties not apparent enough
Quote:
I agree. I think civilians are just not strong enough in 95% of cases, only exception is when people work together very closely which is rare nowadays. I think making the teamwork a little easier by removing shotgun arrest would be a good addition. The downsides of that mechanic outweigh the upsides | |
2021-12-02, 00:53 | #20 | |
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 344
United States of America
|
Re: Civilian penalties not apparent enough
Quote:
Though a grenade would be a little unrealistic. Should be a pistol. I'm not sure why the civi even exists in PR if the efforts are not more obvious, and the reward more than just the player that killed you gets -100. It killing you after 3 would not be much of a deterrent, when I don't care about killing the civi, its a target of opportunity, I'm not out hunting civis, otherwise you don't mean to at all it just happens too quickly to think about it. Playing as a martyr, getting one player to kill you more than once also would be very unlikely against INF. With assets, MGs, or snipers it would work more. -100 points is nice, but I never really cared about it either as the martyr, or the one that shot the martyr. So an immediate punishment, such as it killing you when you kill the 1st civi/martyr would be the only real deterrent. | |
|
|