Question On Collaborators

[Fishw0rk]

Originally Posted by Truism

You know, I'm pretty sure that's actually just completely untrue. Last I checked, there was something deeply morally wrong with not giving medical aid to a wounded combatant. There might actually even be a rule of war about it.

Anyway, if this is the case, the Red Crescent and the Red Cross would be pretty much fucked all the time.

There was a problem with the way Collaborators worked, and it doesn't seem to be fixed.


Collaborators and Civilians should be split into separate classes.

This.

Although I dunno if this collaborato issuing medical attention would truly be considered a "medic" in real life (under Geneva convention or whatever) since he's not part of an official army.

Regardless, I was *hoping* that the ridiculous collaborator spawn time was going to be adjusted in .85 to something more reasonable, but I guess that was wishful thinking. I'd like to see some kind of compromise, like having the 2min spawn *only* when you are killed after being flagged for medical attention. However it should be a 1 minute spawn (or less) otherwise.

And thanks for the clarification on the "use" versus "equip" question.

[OkitaMakoto]

Originally Posted by Fishw0rk

This.

Although I dunno if this collaborato issuing medical attention would truly be considered a "medic" in real life (under Geneva convention or whatever) since he's not part of an official army.

Regardless, I was *hoping* that the ridiculous collaborator spawn time was going to be adjusted in .85 to something more reasonable, but I guess that was wishful thinking. I'd like to see some kind of compromise, like having the 2min spawn *only* when you are killed after being flagged for medical attention. However it should be a 1 minute spawn (or less) otherwise.

And thanks for the clarification on the "use" versus "equip" question.

Well, Im no soldier, and I definitely dont want you to assume Im saying I'm 100% correct but... dont the INS themselves not really fall under the geneva convention as soldiers[in the current conventions articles]? I mean...
The Geneva Convention does not apply to terrorists
Geneva Convention Rules on Al Queda

Not to say we are allowed to shoot civilians smiling at insurgents in real life, but what I think PR is trying to show as effectively as possible, is that these collaborators are working with the insurgency. They are aiding the insurgents, hauling arms, leading troops, calling in mortars, hiding caches, etc. Sure we don't show all of that in game, but these arent just happy go lucky civilians. You gotta use your imagination a little... its a game... and BF2 at that

I mean, think of it like someone spotting mortars... you see a civi and you're not gonna just shoot him.. you see what appears to be him talking to a radio then accurate mortars on your position... you shoot him. Using the medic bag was just one of the ways we chose to implement this.

May change in the future, may not. INS mode and collaborators are always changing

Maybe something we can look into for the future is something along the lines of a 5 minute "killable" time for spotting for mortars or something, so when BLUFOR troops see a civi spotting for mortars, or what they assume is spotting, they can chance it and waste him. Always thinking...

[White Rock]

Spotting for mortar is really just having your cellphone up... so for all you know he's calling his aunt who has a broken leg after the JDAM attack on her village.

Lower the collaborator spawntime somewhat, don't remove it.

[OkitaMakoto]

Originally Posted by White Rock

Spotting for mortar is really just having your cellphone up... so for all you know he's calling his aunt who has a broken leg after the JDAM attack on her village.

Lower the collaborator spawntime somewhat, don't remove it.

Not saying youre always 100% correct, but hell, you see a guy on a phone or radio looking out at you while you are taking heavy mortar fire... Id sure as heck do something about it... Sad that youre not always correct, but true...

[Makee]

Something is completely wrong with general Collaborator philosophy.

First of all, as few of you mentioned, no one should be punished for providing medical attention to anyone, conventional armies should respect Geneva convention:

Combat Medic - Wiki: In 1864, sixteen European states (referring to themselves as "High Contracting Parties"), adopted the First Geneva Convention to save lives, to alleviate the suffering of wounded and sick military personnel, and to protect trained medical personal as civilians, in the act of rendering aid.

Also, no one, under any circumstances shouldn't be allowed to kill an unarmed person!
Just a name "Collaborator" suggests that he is collaborating with enemy, and such, he should be (as is) "point of interest" and potential source of informations for conventional troops but never a valid target.

Restrain of collaborator should remain only ability to conventional troops, but if it is possible at all, should be slightly changed.

Simulation of "being restrained" should look a bit different, collaborator should be unable to move while he is lying restrained on the ground, for the time as his respawn time now, or even longer!
During that time, conventional troops should secure him from his buddies, which should have ability to liberate their friend.
Logically, after that, if conventional army succeeds to hold him in given time - they get intel points, and if insurgents manage to liberate him - no intel points...

I think that this way would reflect RL story on collaborators way better than is now, in any aspect.

[OkitaMakoto]

First of all, its a game. We cant do everything we want and substitutions must be made. On our part as DEV and on the gamers part The civilian/collaborator class has and always will be a difficult class to portray in game. We would love to have NPC running around not taking up player slots that the BLUFOR CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE SHOOT, but sadly... this is BF2 and not possible yet. :\ So the only option is to make them a part of the INS team. Being a part of the INS team they are already going to work for the INS victory. Its a game with a goal, and the goal is to win the short battle. The collaborator gets rocks which can very easily kill a soldier, they can spot for mortars, they can now revive and heal the insurgents comrades, and various other things like building hideouts/placing them etc. They already continually hop back and forth across the line between combatant and non-combatant.

The way we have currently chosen to allow the BLUFOR to have some chances to deal with them may not be wholey realistic in its scenario, but at least it is a chance for the BLUFOR to do something at sometime. Because before, they were spotting for mortars, throwing rocks at you, and you could do little about it save for running them down, which wasnt always safe/easy/doable, etc. So really what it boils down to in my opinion, is that its a game, collaborators already bounce from one side of the combative line to the other, so in-game you cannot simply think of them as "OMG they are just giving a guy a bandage" but must also stretch that to the fact that they are in fact doing various other combative and noncombative roles for the enemy.

Might be best to think of them as a support to a mortar crew or something. See them on the street without a weapon and have little idea what they are[civi,ins, etc] but later see them healing their buddies and calling mortars... and well.. Boom, headshot.

Second of all, the OPs question was answered, and as the suggestion forum is locked, I ma locking this until after the suggestion thread is opened.

At that time you may request this be moved there and reopened or simply make a new one. Dont take this as us not caring or wanting you to shut up, we just want you to play for a week or two more before offering suggestions. Trust me, in a week or two we will be all ears. But for now, just get out and play! I also dont want you to think that I got to post all this and then simply lock it... well, I did, but I only wrote out a lot so that you would have some... "answers" in a sense, or at least something to mull over as you play for another week or two til the suggestions section is reopened

Thanks guys