v1.0 Open Beta AtG AT Missile Splash Damage

[=-=kittykiller]

in this poll will we be fiddling the statistics?

i.e. the poll has a clear winner but it seems many more exist in a minority. will we allow the minorities to take over? thats just undemocratic!!!

anyways bitching aside this is the 2nd most popular.
~50% so that it 2 near misses to kill a Tank (less vs APCs)

i dont want one near miss to kill a apc! no freaking way. 8 Guys in a APC nuked just like in 0.98 i dont want this at all. 18 tickets for just staying high.

the way it was in BETA was fine maybe add a little more splash to compensate for no stabilization.

the BF2 engine is about rock paper scissors. PR is loosley based on this.

May i link u to virusilis Videos of CAS on BETA he still dominates not just cuz he is very good but because its so simple to do. Do not make this any easier !!!!

A tank shud require a solid hit. A apc isnt a small tank its a game Dynamic dont ruin it with one near miss kills 8 men. If they want to rush a flag fine let them take a Truck.

(Personally im in favour of a near/far miss disables a truck. so u get a chance to jump out.
all this is moot anyways)

if you just watch virus dominate in the havok . SEE LINK BELOW

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f11...-gameplay.html

what does it add to the other 48 players per team, . JUST RUINS APC TRANS. IMO APC TRANS NEEDS THIS.

[=MeRk= Morbo5131]

I voted 25% but I'm happy with any of the top 3 options, preferably minimum splash. Good gunners shouldn't have too much trouble hitting static targets, and the Hellfires are currently devastating against grouped up infantry.

[PoisonBill]

I think 25%, the missle should scare the tank crewmen or track them. If it's too buggy then go for the bare minimal.

[viirusiiseli]

In my mind the choice is obvious. Have JET AT missiles kill a vehicle if you hit it in a 5-10 meter radius. This is because it's very hard to get direct hits by firing at a laser. Be it a 2-seater or an A10 it's a slim chance your lase missile hits armor directly.

Have HELI AT missiles kill armored vehicles (APC, TANK, IFV) with direct hits and make quite small but noticeable damage from near misses. This is because it is ridiculously easy to hit a vehicle with helicopter's manually aimed missiles.

[yellodeath]

needs to be no splash damage, CAS helos need to have a very relegated role, and in .981 it basically does everything and has no problems leading a team to victory even if the armor squads or even INF squads are horrible, it goes against encouraging teamwork and CAS squads are basically free to go roam and kill everything that moves.

Now with no splash damage, intel is extremely important and knowing where your target is , is key to taking it out. The current system basically allows CAS helos to constantly spam hellfires until the armor/target crew is dead, as they can not do anything to counter it besides scream on mumble for friendly cas/AA, which one of which should be nearby if you're smart.

With no splash, armor crews will still be running around like decapitated chickens if they dont have proper defense against CAS helos, but they have a LOT more chance to actually fight back/maneuver/run/call for backup if the enemy gunner has to land a DIRECT hit, as opposed to just spraying and praying (which mind you would not work in real life, you can't fire LGMs in rapid succession like you can in PR)

CAS choppers need to be just that, close air support, not "go anywhere on the map gods of death"

but yeah^^^^ jets should have good splash on their missiles as you can't even dumbfire them(well, single crew missiles like AS10 or whatnot...tornado kedges/brimstones are fine with splash too) so a laze is necessary, whereas a laze for choppers is nice but with a competent crew - completely unnecessary

[40mmrain]

A slight buff vs unarmoured targets is all. If you cant hit armour directly, aim better.

I agree with virus on the topic of the ASMs fired from jets, theyre much larger and should be splashing like they always did. The utility of the 2 seat fighter bombers was the hyper maneuverable brimstones and equivalent that acted like bombs. The bombs on the fighter bombers are very challenging to use, as they dont guide like the fighter's, so splashing infantry, large targets, or hitting armour while flying at ~1200 speed units diminishes their usefulness.

I'd take the fighter over the fighter-bomber in 1.0, it's ground attack weapon is better than everything the fighter bomber has.

[Rhino]

Originally Posted by viirusiiseli

In my mind the choice is obvious. Have JET AT missiles kill a vehicle if you hit it in a 5-10 meter radius. This is because it's very hard to get direct hits by firing at a laser. Be it a 2-seater or an A10 it's a slim chance your lase missile hits armor directly.

Have HELI AT missiles kill armored vehicles (APC, TANK, IFV) with direct hits and make quite small but noticeable damage from near misses. This is because it is ridiculously easy to hit a vehicle with helicopter's manually aimed missiles.

Well as I said, since the missiles fired from jets are bigger, they have a bigger explosion radius etc than the smaller hellfires etc as they did in the v1.0 Open Beta but that really only counted for a bigger kill radius vs infantry and soft targets as it still did little damages to armour without a direct hit, but still more than a hellfire hitting next to a tank in the same spot. If we where to up the damage of exploding next to targets of both chopper and jet AtG missiles then the jet missiles will still be more powerful with a larger radius.

But choppers still have "laser targeted" missiles and will be kinda odd with that not working vs tanks and jet missiles working fine if we where to do the above...

Originally Posted by 40mmrain

I agree with virus on the topic of the ASMs fired from jets, theyre much larger and should be splashing like they always did. The utility of the 2 seat fighter bombers was the hyper maneuverable brimstones and equivalent that acted like bombs. The bombs on the fighter bombers are very challenging to use, as they dont guide like the fighter's, so splashing infantry, large targets, or hitting armour while flying at ~1200 speed units diminishes their usefulness.

I'd take the fighter over the fighter-bomber in 1.0, it's ground attack weapon is better than everything the fighter bomber has.

The bombs on Fighter Bombers are LGBs, that do guide (at least they did the last time I tried them and pretty sure nothing has changed since), the only difference is that you have a gunner being able to look down, lock onto a lase and drop them onto a target, and also being able to manually guide them onto a target (although that last one still needs a bit of work iirc to make it more like the firing system choppers have), as well as getting many more AtG weapons than a Fighter. The other advantage is that the fighter can concentrate on the flying, while the gunner can concentrate on the bombing etc, instead of the pilot trying to do both at the same time, while also not having a downwards view.

[notmyingamename]

good discussion, thanks for the poll. i rarely get to gun the attack birds, spending most of the time piloting, so i can only give indirect feedback. i do know that i had two very effective and experienced gunners (years of pr) open up in squad mumble about seemingly direct hits that didn't result in kills or even mobility kills. the same guys that i fly with who often catch other helicopters with lg during the dogfight, for instance.

that system is workable, i think. people will innovate and i'm sure we could adjust into new attack patterns that work with the direct hit changes, but a little forgiveness makes sense with the stabilization or lack of.

[viirusiiseli]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Rhino

But choppers still have "laser targeted" missiles and will be kinda odd with that not working vs tanks and jet missiles working fine if we where to do the above...

Yeah I guess... Some splash could be added but certainly not much at least for tanks, maybe just give tanks some noticeable damage from <5m misses. For APCs some damage from <10 meter misses. I guess that way you could still kill a tank/APC with LT missiles by just using more of them. Maybe 3 near misses for a tank and 2 for APC, provided you hit within 5 meters of them.

Originally Posted by =MeRk= Morbo5131

I voted 25% but I'm happy with any of the top 3 options, preferably minimum splash. Good gunners shouldn't have too much trouble hitting static targets, and the Hellfires are currently devastating against grouped up infantry.

They wont anymore in 1.0 from what I gathered, hydras will be the most effective way to kill grouped up infantry and that is most of the time very risky :P

Originally Posted by =-=kittykiller

May i link u to virusilis Videos of CAS on BETA he still dominates not just cuz he is very good but because its so simple to do. Do not make this any easier !!!!

if you just watch virus dominate in the havok . SEE LINK BELOW

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f11...-gameplay.html

what does it add to the other 48 players per team, . JUST RUINS APC TRANS. IMO APC TRANS NEEDS THIS.

Hard to understand exactly what you're trying to say since you have no idea how to use proper grammar. But from what I gathered you're afraid DEVs will make hellfires kill APCs from a miss, they most likely wont as it's absurdly unrealistic and would be slightly over powered even in the hands of a bad gunner.

Don't understand what you're on about with me killing stuff on 1.0 BETA as if it's too easy. 1.0 BETA was the most requiring version to gun a heli in, but in a good way. Gunning a heli on 1.0 was most definitely not "so simple to do" as you think. I killed things because I hit them dead on.

Hellfires didn't have big splash on armored vehicles nor on infantry in BETA. So infantry, light vehicles, armor and helicopters died not because gunning a heli is simple to do, they died because they got hit directly with a missile. If you can't handle that I don't know what to say.

[ExeTick]

Voted for 100% in a 5meter radius.

but instead of 5 meters I think it should be 100% on 1 meter for tanks and IFVs.