Decreased accuracy with other teams weapons?

[Deadmonkiefart]

This is such a minor issue it would not be worth the time. The decreased accuracy would only be with certain weapons and certain kits, and it would just be complicated. Besides, it doesn't affect gameplay that much at all. There would be very little difference in accuracy, if any.

[HellDuke]

And as it was said before: if you aren't green (like the player by the pc) but a soldier that has had some training with a rifle there is a 98% chance that he will fire as accurately with any other.

If you fired one rifle you've fired them all. And the less you are used to one rifle the better. You get used to the superior penetration of the ak, pick up the m16 fire off a few rounds at the enemy behind various cover and the first words out of your mouth would be "WTF!?!" So basicly the only thing you need to adjust is to: recoil (the hardest but you do it after 2-10 shots depending on how good you are), penetration (just think and shoot after he's out of cover, ain that hard is it? ) and realoading system (first reload you'll find out how to take the clip out, how to put it in and how to prime so you can shoot the bullets (you need to pull a little thingy on the m16 i think)) There you have it.

Accurasy doesn't have to decrease even if it were possible to do ingame.

[MrD]

OMG! I think theres some urban myths need clearing up here.

When you take an L85A2 rifle and place it in your shoulder comfortably and aim down the SUSAT you go to zero it in on the ranges, then nothwithstanding any serious bangs to the SUSAT which might move it off it's bolted rails guide, you are "zeroed in"

Everybody has different sized bodies and if you grab someone elses rifle then your long range aiming (100m up) goes to hell! Here we are talking about the same rifle used by two soldiers in the same army!

You grab another soldiers rifle you don't use everyday (enemy weapon) and your weapons handling is down for starters, then you add the aiming accuracy issues described above and the weapon only becomes of any use aiming below 100m at most or spray and pray at short range.

There would have to be two levels of accuracy depreciation made for the game to be realistic if deviation through using a weapon you were not issued with (and had zeroed in) :

1) Using rifle belonging to soldier on your team, exponential deviation increase over 100m range.

2) Using opposing army soldiers weapon, initial deviation like insurgent army have right now, with severe deviation over 100m range.

[HellDuke]

If that post was directed at me this is my answer as to the fact i am not a victim of urban myths. If not just clearing some things up (maybe i misunderstood a few sentences)

Originally Posted by [R-PUB]MrD

OMG! I think theres some urban myths need clearing up here.

Everybody has different sized bodies and if you grab someone elses rifle then your long range aiming (100m up) goes to hell! Here we are talking about the same rifle used by two soldiers in the same army!

Is that to be understand as all weapons are costumized to the owner? Can't see that happening. It's not like each soldier is "married" to his weapon like let's say a snooker player is with his cue. If you are in a long range firefight and can find cover you will be able to quickly adjust the sights and the loss of accurasy will be minimal. If you are in CQB there is no time for such things and then again there is no need because in CQB the ranges aren't all that big so that minor adjusments would mean that much

Originally Posted by [R-PUB]MrD

You grab another soldiers rifle you don't use everyday (enemy weapon) and your weapons handling is down for starters

Here would be my answer:

Originally Posted by HellDuke

you need to adjust is to: recoil

It's a gun not someone elses limbs. You need to familiarize to the layout (triger, mag, safty, sights etc.) as i stated as well, and how to reload, but if you are grabing someone elses weapon i don't think you're doing it for fun: it has a bloody mag in it, it has ammo mine doesn't and i don't have any spare, sum up: let's use that mag on the enemy. This give me an idea: when you pick up the other kit you do not receive the additional mags only the weapon with the mag in it.

[Deadmonkiefart]

Originally Posted by HellDuke

let's use that mag on the enemy. This give me an idea: when you pick up the other kit you do not receive the additional mags only the weapon with the mag in it.

You can still take the ammo off the body.

[MrD]

Originally Posted by HellDuke

If that post was directed at me this is my answer as to the fact i am not a victim of urban myths. If not just clearing some things up (maybe i misunderstood a few sentences)



Is that to be understand as all weapons are costumized to the owner? Can't see that happening. It's not like each soldier is "married" to his weapon like let's say a snooker player is with his cue. If you are in a long range firefight and can find cover you will be able to quickly adjust the sights and the loss of accurasy will be minimal. If you are in CQB there is no time for such things and then again there is no need because in CQB the ranges aren't all that big so that minor adjusments would mean that much


Here would be my answer:

It's a gun not someone elses limbs. You need to familiarize to the layout (triger, mag, safty, sights etc.) as i stated as well, and how to reload, but if you are grabing someone elses weapon i don't think you're doing it for fun: it has a bloody mag in it, it has ammo mine doesn't and i don't have any spare, sum up: let's use that mag on the enemy. This give me an idea: when you pick up the other kit you do not receive the additional mags only the weapon with the mag in it.

We've got a whole chain of events here that you need to think about very carefully. Because the next few things I'm going to ask you imagine in your mind are about spacial awarenes, length of objects and seating areas.

The shoulder area (muscle and fat distribution) where the butt of the rifle (the L85A2 has several different sized stocks available, never used them personally though) when you place the butt in that "comfortable spot" there are bound to be a certain number of sizes amongst the armies 120,000 fighting troops.

Next the handgrip and trigger position will be a different distance away from the body due to that seating position on the shoulder with reference to the line going down through your head/spine/chest. Your arm will be bent to a comfortable position to fit this distance and not put your wrist at an uncomfortable angle allowing for steady and firm pressing of the trigger to reduce any trigger pulling shake that will throw off your aim.

Then the size of your hand and how you grasp the handgrip, the preferred holding angle that is comfortable for your wrist and hand. These are different because people have different shaped and sized hands, different comfortable wrist rotation.

Next we have the fact that you are now going to move your head to the rear of the SUSAT. The SUSAT can be pushed backwards and forwards somewhat on its rails. You bend your head to place your eye in a comfortable position and match the sight to that.

With moving your head to the comfortable position we now have to take other factors into account. The length of neck, the height of face to the eye . The width of eyes and width of face too.

Now bear in mind that the SUSAT is a single reticule, there is no ironsights in operation here where you line up rear and foresights. This should explain fully how any scoped weapon with a single reticule is going to be pretty innacurate in another persons hands, no matter how well trained he is as at this point, the reticule might be on a "target" when you fire, but the barrel might not be facing the target at all!!! A difference of simply one degree and you are missing everything over 100m.


The first time I was issued with a rifle, well before I was hitting the ranges with it we carried it round everywhere, slept with it when out on exercise. We practised putting the rifle into our shoulder, rising the rifle to aiming position and having a "dry" firing of it to check for shake. It was only once we were completely comfortable with our personal weapons handling that we hit the ranges and zeroed in our rifles with help from a spotter and our toolkits out to adjust the SUSAT position.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Ok
Following MrD's explanation and since I hate optics make any weapon with a scope innaccurate unless you spawn with it.
I know that is not possible and even if it were then it wouldn't be important enough to spend the time but it would jam up those M4 whores.

[MrD]

We could add ammo loadouts to the equation too.

I used to prefer to keep 28 rounds in my magazines. My issued mags had stiff springs and I kept them well oiled and cleaned. It takes about 60 seconds to load a magazine up, pushing rounds in and tucking them to the rear of the magazine. You decide how many tracers to use, but the bandolier belts you pull out of the ammo boxes have clips of 5 rounds, with one being a tracer.

The very fact someone else has loaded a magazine is scary, you don't know what is going to come out. You might not want a tracer round to come out when you fire, you might prefer to keep tracer rounds handy in a pocket to single load in through the breech opening when you are spotting enemies "watch my tracer! watch my tracer!"

Then what if the gonk you took the rifle and ammo off couldn't load their mags properly? The rounds start jamming just when you don't need them to! They might put in too many rounds and jam your rifle, too little and you are having problems counting rounds off. They might not have serviced their mags and they don't load straight. They might not keep them in a clean tight webbing pouch leading to at the least the rounds being off square, or at worst the mag being full of dirt and rust.

You pick up an insurgent weapoin and it all goes to hell (although the AK is a durable thing, magazine loading is still critical) What if some gonks been altering the rounds, shaving some off to make dum dums. Have you watched that afghan documentary about the lifestyle of people in the no go areas who reclaim shell casings and repack them? You need to know for sure the right amount of powder is in, the firing cap works, the round is made correctly or you get a jam or worse a lost eye when the rifle explodes.

Theres a hundred and one ways a rifle can fail and only YOU the highly trained soldier who admins his own kit can be absolutely sure that the rifle you are firing is going to work and work right. Your life depends on it. Your mates lives depend on it!

[xiso]

To cool to read this ! : D

Mr D is absolutly right !
I will never pic up a weapon never used it before. Not in CQB or on long range like Afghanistan. Its not hollywood ! Every weapon has a own holding point .. everything differs from weapon to weapon .. especially if you have a scope on it !
Everyone is searchin his own perfect distance from Eye to Scope. You must train it several times before you have edit the weapon to what you wanted it to.
I neve give my rifle in other hands .. and if so .. i watch him like a serialkiller next to my kids.
You runned, jumped, swum, crouched, climbed, lived and breathed with this weapon and you will never throw it away without attention to pick a new one up.
Maybe you will change your equiptment to pic up ammo, NVG`s, First Aid or something from your enemy but you will never throw away your M16/M4 for an AK-47 (only if it is damaged).
Thats why everyone in the Us Armed Forces gets his own rifle. And yeah Marines, Army, Navy are trained with OPFORCE weapons as well .. but when Navy Seals are goin on missions they take their own weapons like Navy Seal Ak-47 or Ak-101 .. usin their own rifles .. but in this moment they have the chance to pick up enemy ammunition with the same cal.

[Deadmonkiefart]

I don't think that decreased accuracy with picked up kits should be implemented. Rather, add a delay when picking up kits that simulates you removing your ammo and weapon and picking up the other kit; no more than 5-10 seconds though.