Medic system

[Tarantula]

I really like the idea +1
This could mean dedicated medevac and Medic squads

I like the idea but maybe you could change the model and name of epipen to something else.

[Gleger]

I really like the idea.

Also, adding to this medic system, having a deployable Field Hospital (using the same rules as any assets around a FOP) that could be built and it would simulate having doctors at an outpost. Limit those to 2 per map also. They could use the tent models and just add a + on it.

Anyways, the medic system does need to get tweaked in my opinion, and Fungwu's idea is a great start.

[Fungwu]

I like the idea but maybe you could change the model and name of epipen to something else

I think the first thing is to find if it is better to give unlimited revives to everybody and just limit healing, or maybe it will be better to limit both, and give the average soldier just one epipen.

If reviving is unlimited than the current resuscitate weapon could just be tweaked so that it revives. If reviving is better to be limited, than keeping the epipen might be fine.

Another idea that crossed my mind was making the deploy time for a bandage ~30 seconds. So it would actually take a considerable time to bandage a wounded soldier rather than the current couple of seconds.

Think of a second about the impact here, for someone to drop 4 bandages to a freshly revived soldier would take two minutes of dedicated bandage deploying and dropping, so the squad is even more slowed down by the wounded.

Additionally, unless 4 guys drop their bandages simultaneously, the guy would probably bleed out enough in the 2 minutes that he would need a fifth bandage to fully heal.

The overall aim here is to make being shot:

A bad thing for you

A very bad thing for your squad who has to look out for you

Also the teamwork element would be greatly expanded.

If a guy goes down, you can't just call for a medic and then expect your mate to be painlessly back on his feet within a minute with the effort of only one soldier.

Actually reviving him will be easier, since anyone can do it, but after he is up your troubles really begin.

You need to get him to a safe place, start treating his bleeding immediately, and organize your squad to defend, because you know this will take awhile.

Then you need to analyze how much medical supplies you have, and whether you need to fallback for supplies (which would represent carrying the guy out to a medical station where you could hand him over)

Or call in a dedicated medic, which obviously could entail many difficulties depending on where you are and what travel options are available.

I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but I think an update to the scoring system would help facilitate a change in the mentality of the players.

My first idea here would be to make getting shot and then revived equal 1 ticket and 1 death on the scoreboard and getting shot and giving up would equal 5 deaths and 5 tickets.

The theory behind these point changes goes like this:

Squad A is hit by enemy fire and loses 3 guys. Since bringing those 3 back to full health and out of harms way would be a big chore, they just give up and respawn on the rally point. However the scoring system would penalize them for unrealistically leaving wounded men behind and they have 15 deaths added to their squad score.

Squad B loses 3 men, and decides to fallback, regroup with another squad and retrieve their fallen comrades, possibly calling for the teams medic to assist them. Ultimately they are successful, and thus only lose 3 tickets, as opposed to Squad A's 15.

The importance of having even a revive equal 1 death is so that being wounded meaningful represents a soldier being taken out of action, even if in the game he eventually is fully healed.

If the action of abandoning fallen comrades is greatly discouraged, cooperation not only between players, but between squads and ultimately the whole team will be greatly rewarded.

Imagine one team where all the squads run off on their own. Any squad that got wiped out would cost the team 30 tickets, and the chances of retrieving the fallen with the team spread out would of course be slim.

On the other team all the squads work together, and if one is wiped out, then the others fight their way to the position and try to rescue them. This approach, even if the actual kill ratio wasn't in their favor, would leave the team that plays together far ahead in tickets.

Also, adding to this medic system, having a deployable Field Hospital (using the same rules as any assets around a FOP) that could be built and it would simulate having doctors at an outpost. Limit those to 2 per map also. They could use the tent models and just add a + on it.

I had this same idea, but I could not work out all the kinks. If the firebase was under attack the defenders would have an unrealistic supply of constant healing.

I figured that FOBs have supply crates around them, and you can get bandages from those, so in approximation it works out as a field hospital, without an undue advantage when you are defending.

Also, since for the average player a bandage takes a full ammo slot, and even big ammo crates are limited, using a FOB to heal would create supply problems if too many people on the team tried to heal there(which is a good thing). Thus I think, getting bandages from crates would be a better stand in for a field hospital than an actual structure.

[Rudd]

Originally Posted by myles

you are alrady able to do this by clicking right click on the sucide button
but anway about your idea i dont think they shiuld use it beacuse everyone in real life dont carry epipen and know medic skills

iirc all soldiers are taught basic life saver first aid, with opportunities to complete extra courses.

Remember the epipen is not actually carried into battle, its a parody of the realistic treatment of casualties with adrenaline and other pharmacological interventions via intravenous administration.

[llPANCHOll]

I can see some merit in this suggestion..
It think a full squad should be given enough bandages to get 1.5 of there members back up and to full health if they go down.

As far as the requestable medic kits, I am all for it but I think there should be more than 2, and to keep these from being exploited, they should be unarmed, epipens still harm opposing forces correct?? Perhaps give them restrainers on insurgency maps.

[Fungwu]

"As far as the requestable medic kits, I am all for it but I think there should be more than 2, and to keep these from being exploited, they should be unarmed, exept for say a knife or restrainer."

That is interesting, I hadn't thought of taking away their guns.

I am not sure what would be best, a normal unscoped rifle as now, some sort of personal defense weapon, like a pistol, or nothing at all.

Maybe some one else can share their thoughts on the ups and downs of this.

In terms of numbers I thought 2 kits with no respawn time would be enough for a small medivac squad with 2 medics and some pilots, drivers, support etc. My reluctance in having more is that there would be more medic kits available than dedicated medics, and a player could grab an available kit, heal his squad, then drop it.

So I think the number of kits has to be linked closely with how many people are willing to be dedicated medic, and I think two is a good number to start at.

[Solver]

Very solid thinking, the only problem I can see is that those dedicated medics would essentially have to lonewolf. They can't work with a normal infantry squad and respond to calls - no squad leader wants a member who just runs off because he's needed elsewhere. If the two medics form a squad for themselves, it's still not much of a squad as they would likely be better off splitting up to cover more area with their healing ability. And that would make gameplay very difficult for the medics, no convenient rally points, hard to get transportation most of the time unless there's, say, a LB pilot that dedicates himself to moving the medics around (but would then not have the time to transport other infantry probably). Maybe give the medics their own transport vehicles (medevac) that would only be usable by the dedicated Medic class?

[Fungwu]

You raise some good points solver.

In my experience, chopper pilots usually transport infantry in the beginning of the round, and then their activity starts to really drop off once the FOBs get built and rally points get deployed. So I think flying medivac would actually give choppers a lot more to do on maps like Jabal, Barracuda, and Muttra. On a map like Kashan or Qwai, I hardly ever see people deploying by chopper. So 2 dedicated medivac choppers on those maps would be add a whole new dimension for pilots.

The medics might have to lone wolf, but I see it like this: Many times on a server the squads are all full, and maybe I am not too interested in putting 100% attention into playing. Right now players like that mill around, try to one man vehicles, grab sniper rifles, etc. Having a dedicated medic would give lonewolf players something team oriented and useful to do.

You could create an "ambulance" Humvee, similar to the engineer jeeps of the last patch that only medics can drive. This would give lone wolf players some significant ability to reach their teammates, but since it would be combat ineffective they would have to focus on their role.

I am sure some creative and dedicated players could find all sorts of ways to implement the medic class in the field. Maybe someone lazy can just hang around a firebase, and heal wounded as they filter in from the field. Or maybe someone will really get into the idea, and get 2-3 guys to go with them as they visit squads in the field to heal them.

Ultimately the medic is not totally necessary as squads can revive and heal without them, however it does provide an outlet for motivated and ingenious players to really excel and help their team.

I think the DEVs have shown a "build it and they will come" strategy to realism and teamwork can really succeed. Rather than talk down to the players, each release asks more and more from them, in terms of tactics and teamwork.

So I think rather than thinking of all the problems increasing the complexity creates, I see all the opportunities for a deeper, more immersive, more team oriented game that changing the medic system can create.

As we have seen with deviation, sometimes balancing needs several releases to get right, but with a solid idea the effort can really pay off.

[Tarantula]

I say they should be unarmed, meaning the squad they're coming to heal would have to cover them.
Also new medevac vehicles would be good for the medics.
"you have to be a medic to use thie vehicle"
I support this idea 100%, maybe some DEVS could take a look see.

[Remoted-Bomb]

2 medics isn't enough for 30 players.

I'm also thinking that some people are taking the medic kit just for fun, and then not reviving people. That would make the whole team fall.. so i think there is to much responsibility for 1 person (even if he is not playing around, he can still be a bad medic and just die).

Also, when there is infantry maps? What is he supposed to do then, when it will take 15 minutes to go there.

Last thing.. if a full squad is bleeding, and the medic estimates 10 minutes. They have a rally next to them. I think that squad would choose to suicide and just respawn instead of waiting.