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[Zeno]

Originally Posted by madparatrooper

It's call Project Reality....

still they refuse to put in the m82

[Rudd]

Originally Posted by Zeno

still they refuse to put in the m82

no, they did put it in...and we all saw what happened

and also the realistic aspects of the weapon aren't fully portrayable ingame, thus there are good reasons not to include it.

[Zimmer]

Because its not used against personnel in major parts of Afghanistan its a Hollywood and game culture that says 50 cal snipers are common.

Now none of us has big knowledge of or first hand knowledge of whats going on in these batalions, but Ninja2Dan is a Military advisor so he must have had some years in the US army or USMC and I will just quote what he said:

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Ninja2dan

From a realism standpoint, the .50-caliber rifles and other similar-caliber special-purpose weapons are used in combat on a limited scale. They are not a normal weapon of issue, even for those who use them frequently. They are considered "special purpose" for a reason.

These weapons are usually used in the roles of anti-material and UXO removal. In fact, the M82 was originally designed as an AM rifle capable of defeating long-range hard targets such as parked aircraft. It was in no way designed with the intent of attacking personnel. The rifle is obviously capable of engaging personnel, but when you compare it to other sniper weapons, it's largely inferior.


From a gameplay standpoint, I see it being almost impossible to realistically integrate such a weapon system into PR. For example, vehicles do not have specific hit-boxes that can be used to determine if the shot would have done damage to the vehicle or not, and if so what amount of damage. A .50-caliber (12.7mm) round is not going to do jack shit to an armored vehicle such as an MBT unless you are striking external unprotected components like sensors, optics, antennas, etc. And for light-armored vehicles such as an uparmored HMMWV, you would need to hit a specific point on the vehicle from a specific angle in order to do anything more than chip paint or annoy the occupants.

If this kit was to be added to PR again, it would have to be done so under the guidelines that it would be used primarily as an anti-material rifle only, with use against personnel being for emergencies and defense only. But because our players are not real soldiers, those players are undoubtedly going to try using the weapon in aspects which it was not intended or desired. The expoitation of the game limitations are what I feel is the primary reason such weapons are no longer available in PR.

The only way I see this type of weapon ever being permitted into PR is if we can come up with a suitable means of use, but as mentioned above that is likely an engine limitation that can't be overcome. Can I shoot a land mine to disable it? Can I shoot a tire or engine on a jeep and disable that vehicle? Can I fire at a tank, even with a thousand rounds, and still do zero damage? Those are just a couple of examples of why it's not present in the game right now.

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Ninja2dan

While these weapons are capable of anti-personnel use, they are not designed with that role in mind. Using such weapons against personnel is an uncommon situation such as extremely long range or when no other weapon is available. If a sniper had a choice of weapon platform to engage troops, they would choose a more precise and lighter-weight platform.
As long as PR is incapable of permitting the proper employment of those weapons, they have no use in the game. If you need an anti-personnel rifle, there are already models present for every faction. Maybe one day we'll see the coding team figure out how to effectively use anti-material weapons, but until then I don't see them becoming available.

Even though he has not served in the Norwegian army I would say he is more qualified to say what is majorly realistic and whats not realistic.

He also says 50 is used against enemy personnel is used against targets far away we then speak about x>+1000 meters atleast, I am not going to say an exact number because I dont know and therefore should not wildly guess on it so I said 1000 meters, the longest view distance today is around 800-1000 meters in kashan and I would bet that a standard sniper rifle is as deadly there as it is at 600 meters and more precise then a fifty cal. BTW: the Norwegian record sniper record with a kill is around 1500 meters.

Oh one more thing the ROE clearly says that .50 cal sniper rifles are prohibited from use against personnel I remember when it was once used in an Emergency, it was maybe not a really big case, but all the newspapers wrote about it and the government had to go in and see if it was used by a soldier who just wanted some "fun"

[pleym]

Originally Posted by stiankir

Even though the real army use Aim-Point, it shouldn't be much of a problem to just add some EO-Tech-sights!!!!

The EO-Tech sights will not be used.. But you can play with EO-Tech if you play as rifleman specialist in the future as Dutch

[KP]

Personally, I think that the Engineer (STING?) should be using the HK416. AFAIK, the Norwegian Army's professional Combat Engineer unit, PING kp C (IIRC), deploys more or less organic with the TMBN units, so they have the capacity readily available. The STINGers use the HK416, same as TMBN.

[pleym]

Originally Posted by [R-MOD]KP

Personally, I think that the Engineer (STING?) should be using the HK416. AFAIK, the Norwegian Army's professional Combat Engineer unit, STING kp C (IIRC), deploys more or less organic with the TMBN units, so they have the capacity readily available. The STINGers use the HK416, same as TMBN.

I think maybe also we better change

Since you crated the weapons do you know if they use Iron or Aim-Point?

[Zimmer]

Originally Posted by [R-COM]pleym

I think maybe also we better change

Since you crated the weapons do you know if they use Iron or Aim-Point?

Argh has a mate who is in the engineer batalion as we speak, but he does not come home before 1 week, but I think they use aim points on all there h&k 416.

One guy I also know is in the CSS as you shall pleym and he use Aim-point, and CSS isnt the foremost troops, so I would say that you can easily put aim-points on the h&k's for the engineers.

[stiankir]

Originally Posted by [R-COM]pleym

The EO-Tech sights will not be used.. But you can play with EO-Tech if you play as rifleman specialist in the future as Dutch

Bye Norway, welcome Netherlands!

But seriously:
This faction is far from finished, and we still need some help!

Do you have some skills in texturing, coding or modelling, and want to help? Please let the Norwegian Forces-team know.
Easiest way to get in touch would be to contact Pleym.

[HeXeY]

Norwegian snipers are not allowed to engage enemy personnel (as in infantry) with the MØR other than for selfdefence purposes.
It is solely used to engage hard targets buildings and vehicles, therefore I'd say it's unrealistic to have it as a sniper against vehicles is a bad idea in the BF2 engine as it would be overkill to destroy a vehicle with one shot, and as far as I know you can't code it to immobilize the vehicle by hitting "there" or "there", or maybe over "here"...

- Våre retningslinjer er klare. 12,7mm «multi-pupose»-ammunisjon skal kun brukes mot harde og semi-harde mål, ikke mot personell. Unntaket er ved rent selvforsvar der andre våpen og annen ammunisjon ikke er tilgjengelig, svarer til slutt general Roar Sundseth, nestkommanderende ved FOHK.

-Our policy is clear. 12.7mm «multi-pupose»-ammunition is only to be used against hard, and semi-hard targets, not against personnel. The exception is selfdefence where other weapons and ammunitions are not available, general Roar Sundseth, second in command at FOHK (Norwegian Army's HQ thingy sort of), finishes

Source

[Kirra]

^^Dude, read the source you're providing. They are talking about the multipurpose ammunition, not the rifle itself.

AFAIK, the only issue with that ammo is that it kinda explodes upon impact, thus its use vs soft targets is banned. (Although some people say that it only explodes AFTER it has penetrated a human and thus should not be banned)