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PR:BF2 Feedback Post your feedback on the current Project Reality release (including SinglePlayer). |
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2022-04-13, 06:59 | #21 |
PR:BF2 Lead Developer
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Re: Removal of live Cap and impact on SL/Teamwork
As others have pointed out this change was meant to remove some artificial information that you gained from the cap bar. Not for realism sakes (spoiler there are no flags in r/l ), but to change gameplay. Hiding the cap bar completely would be no option at all.
One common tactic that others already mentioned was to just peek into cap radius, check if you are capping and play passive if you are. We do not think that this is peek gameplay and wanted to force attackers to be more aggressive and seek out enemies. So the intend was never to make game slower or more passive. From the games I played so far (on different servers with different amount of "veterancy" in team), the communications did not change with the reduced accuracy of capping status. Squads still report that they are capping, that they need help to push a flag or that they need help defending. Feeling when the enemy has advantage was something you already had to do before when defending as you would never see the bar move. You also raised some valid concerns, that we are thinking about. Regarding knowing when you outnumber tunnel rats: Getting a team to stop throwing themselves into the meat grinder was already nearly impossible with live updating cap bar as well. Tunnels or other hard to breach places are an issue on all game modes and will continue to be one. These are mostly map issues and fixing those through game mechanics is always difficult. We are looking into other ways to deal with this, but I think the cap bar plays little to no role in this. Regarding getting feedback on your actions: The psychology is sound and players love to get instant rewards, but we break it already a lot in PR for sake of creating fog of war. For example only getting credited a kill after the victim respawned is in the same category. Additionally the defenders of a flag never had this instant reward mechanic either. |
Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
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2022-04-13, 10:47 | #22 | |
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,008
Sweden
Location: Stockholm
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Re: Removal of live Cap and impact on SL/Teamwork
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2022-04-13, 11:03 | #23 |
PR:BF2 Lead Developer
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Re: Removal of live Cap and impact on SL/Teamwork
If you want to sit idle for 1 minute, it is your decision. I stopped doing it and just assume you are not capping until it moves. In the mean time I try to reach positions I want to hold or try to get picture of capzone without relying on cap progress to update. As Chuva pointed out, there is lots to do other than stare at UI and wait for it to tell you what to do.
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Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
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2022-04-13, 15:50 | #24 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 493
Yugoslavia
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Re: Removal of live Cap and impact on SL/Teamwork
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For those squads, peeking into cap radius and securing relatively strong defensive position is only real attack option they can pull off, as in that situation they effectively role swap attacker and defender roles with defending side, which forces enemy to fight on there terms (as those squads perform better in defense compared to attack). In that tactic, live cap gave squad leaders needed feedback in X seconds, for which most squad leaders will now wait for X minutes. Lack of needed feedback leads to more passive gameplay and it goes against main reason for this change, making attacker side more aggressive. Lack I said, reason why most squad leaders want to wait has more to do with real capabilities of there squad members. Quote:
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2022-04-13, 16:58 | #25 | |||||
PR:BF2 Contributor
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 295
Russian Federation
Location: Ekaterinburg
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Re: Removal of live Cap and impact on SL/Teamwork
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The level of communication that exists due to flag capture bar is limited to some individual posting in chat that they started capping, yet you make it look like quite important thing starting communication. Quote:
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time to learn how to SL then. Same as mortars learn to deliver crates instead of rebuilding them. Quote:
1) huge flow of communications 2) need to make decisions every moment 3) need to track how everything is going locally and globally 4) need to plan fast, explain your plan clearly, adapt when plan never works for me personally made playing as SL more interesting than just regular AR. After long rounds I felt exhausted sometimes, after 2-3 totally exhausted, had to sleep longer, but it was absolutely and definitively TOP GAMEPLAY which you can get from PR, better than "Tank minus&50inf minus&trans minus&lets wait for enemy tank to move (to minus)". Question to you why you play SL if you not getting jacked from same stuff. | |||||
2022-04-13, 18:31 | #26 | |
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 476
Trinidad and Tobago
Location: Grenada (Another Island)
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Re: Removal of live Cap and impact on SL/Teamwork
Wait question because I never notice. (I'm generally not in defend flags since update becuz assetwhores, yes) Did you (DEVs) revert the "Defenders can't know when enemy is capping until its neutral" to put this? If so, isn't that contradicting what Mats said about:
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I honestly preferred the old way of capping where defenders won't know they are losing the flag till its lost. Makes you think harder on whether or not you should fall back or move out because you don't know how much people are in the capzone. | |
2022-04-13, 19:23 | #27 |
PR:BF2 Lead Developer
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Re: Removal of live Cap and impact on SL/Teamwork
This behaviour of flags was inconsistent and confusing to new players as well as veterans. I mean a couple of posts up you have a DEV that didnt know you could not see progress while defending
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Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
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2022-04-13, 21:07 | #28 | |
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 470
Ireland
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Re: Removal of live Cap and impact on SL/Teamwork
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You wait till you have enough guys above ground to out cap the defenders below. Only when you actually cap the flag is when you need to clear them out inching up smoke grenades and frag grenades. Use the smoke grenades to make them paranoid to waste their explosives. IRL smoke them out, nade them out, pre-fire them out. Make some explosions going in, test for response of their explosive munitons (RPG, Grenades). 2nd step is to false push in there 1 or 2 guys a few steps of pre-fire then bail out to reset. Test reaction with this. Hold security above ground. 3rd step is buddy team breaching clearing every new angle with grenades. 2 men up front, rest in rear with 1 man hurt per RPG spread. Through door way, 2nd man through goes opposite way of 1st man, if 1st man goes left 2nd man goes right. Every other man alternates, left/right/left/right. For wide opening, 1st man holds corner, 2nd man slams against the far wall while pre-firing. If area attack comes in everyone fast breach and clear inside. We need physical smoke effects in game messing with vision, plus overpressure effects from explosives. Put some cigarette smoke in your eye at distance or get Enola Gaye smoke grenades, make your eyes teary or go to a big event paintball game and have some enemies do it to you. Can you confirm rounds ricochet or not in game? It could help with hard wall tunnel breaching so I can bounce some rounds at them. I see .50 cal rounds ricochet sometimes I think, but when I use small arms and I hit wall at a bounce angle it makes the ricochet noise but I need to know if the round actually ricochets the contour of the wall for impact. | |
2022-04-13, 21:42 | #29 |
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 32
Japan
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Re: Removal of live Cap and impact on SL/Teamwork
As a non-SL player, I prefer the old level of information. Having a rough idea of the level of resistance I was expecting to meet and adjusting my alertness and feeling the squad's tension change was more fun to me. The game play distinction between being within reach of your current objective and being between objectives was more pronounced. The age-old 'are we capping?' question, the pregnant pause, the affirmative answer after taking out a defending squad was satisfying to me.
Similarly, not knowing the way the wind was blowing as the defending squad was better too. Having the element of surprise against me made it difficult to keep my alertness up for longer periods of time - making me curse myself all the more when it does finally go down. Defending is just more boring when I know I don't really have to because I'll probably get confirmation there's enemy in the area before visual contact. The UI graphic is a bit nicer than before. If I was allowed to make adjustments, I'd keep it but adapt to the old system information-wise. |
2022-04-14, 12:26 | #30 |
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 163
Portugal
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Re: Removal of live Cap and impact on SL/Teamwork
@ Chuva l basically didn't want to get inside this discussion because it will just eventually become a Dick comparison contest and loose the objective of this discussion.
Im just legit just going to leave at this after my response so it doesn't get personal and the typical PR "drama discussion". Im just making arguments that can mostly benefit my point. I SL almost every time l play this game and lm aware of everything you are saying, you don't need to tell me l have to learn how to SL l mostly succeed when l do SL, l have to Admin and pay attention to balance and constantly see how people perform and if they deserved to be switched by skill or their plan failed cause bad luck (l think l have good awarenesses its what lm trying to say) and we usually get a mix of competent/fun gameplay. I SL because in short if l don't other people won't and you either get Freekit or randoms will do so and the experience won't be as fun if they aren't all competent since they got "forced to do so" because no one else did, thats not the PR experience why people play the game. I have a lots of fun doing SL, l really enjoy it being able to be nice and provide the semi serious PR experience and have fun and provide fun, l dont cry about it all that often if lm not in burn out. Issue is that like you said, do it 3 times and it already slightly hits you, do it 1-3 times every time, a couple days a and you happen to do the same through months even years and it starts taking a toll on you, you already know that it will take a bit of you doing the same process especially with randoms. You realize you can base yourself in tactics and experience to make this process easier and this is why l dislike the idea of making it harder and more draining to the backbone of this game. |
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