v1.3 Nuijamaa

[ComradeHX]

Great timing! So when will update be available?

Updated time to stay within ROE as civilian to 2 minutes.

But what does this mean?

2 min after dropping kit to become Civi, or is it 2 min after exiting vehicle...etc. to become Civi?

Nuijamaa:
Updated Russian APCs: 2x BTR-80a on AAS64, 1x BTR-80a and 1x BMP2 on AAS128

And why did this happen?

Nuijamaa was always balanced by the fact that VBCI have thermals(spot enemies and shoot first even through smoke, also great at actually seeing infantry to shoot at them) while BMP2 have better firepower(and easily overheat).
(and that French infantry has op weapons + heavier AT-4)

2x BTR-80A means Russians have, as usual, worse of everything.

Am I missing something or will Russian HAT kit be the deciding factor in winning the game?

[Rabbit]

Originally Posted by ComradeHX

And why did this happen?

BTR-80a is fast and wheeled, its gun is the same as the VBCI, its smaller that the VBCI and its amphibious also the BTR-80a, imo its the better choice, and you still have the bmp2 on large if you REALLY want it.

[ComradeHX]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Rabbit

BTR-80a is fast and wheeled, its gun is the same as the VBCI, its smaller that the VBCI and its amphibious also the BTR-80a, imo its the better choice, and you still have the bmp2 on large if you REALLY want it.

VBCI is also fast and wheeled.

Going into water with enemy nearby is suicide because there are thick bushes on either side of river(and you don't have thermals to spot infantry under/behind them); and there are multiple bridges(big and small) to cross the river with. Being amphibious isn't all that useful.

Same rate of fire on gun, but what about armour?

There is a huge difference between having thermals and not, because smoke is actually useful(and VERY effective) now.

APC-only layer used to be asymmetrically balanced by having BMP-2 better in a straight-up fight(still requiring skill, because guns overheat quickly and hull turn rate on the move is bad; making missed shots very punishing) while French forces have better LAT(one hit to the back actually does serious damage to BMP-2) and thermals, which makes a huge difference if driver knows to press ONE button.

[MaSSive]

VBCI should have better armor and 25mm canon, opposed to BTR80s 30mm cannon and weak armor. Add TI on VBCI and BTR doesn't have much chance unless VBCI crew is purely pleb driven.

That is IRL and I don't know how its coded. BMP2 is tracked and slower, while VBCI is wheeled and faster with less fire power. That was perfect balance I don't know what was the issue.

[ComradeHX]

Originally Posted by MaSSive

That was perfect balance I don't know what was the issue.

It was too balanced.

[Rabbit]

Originally Posted by ComradeHX

VBCI is also fast and wheeled.

Thats my point here they are similar, the others are differences.

Going into water with enemy nearby is suicide because there are thick bushes on either side of river(and you don't have thermals to spot infantry under/behind them); and there are multiple bridges(big and small) to cross the river with. Being amphibious isn't all that useful.

Hell of a lot better than crossing the single bridge to dairy farm or wind farm, or to gas station or villa for french. Not needing a CSB is pretty great.

Same rate of fire on gun, but what about armour?

When I tested it, it was 22 or 23 rounds from both on front armor to kill, also holding down the trigger would overheat both before a kill.

There is a huge difference between having thermals and not, because smoke is actually useful(and VERY effective) now.

Sure, but why not try it first?

APC-only layer used to be asymmetrically balanced by having BMP-2 better in a straight-up fight(still requiring skill, because guns overheat quickly and turn rate on the move is bad; making missed shots very punishing) while French forces have better LAT(one hit to the back actually does serious damage to BMP-2) and thermals, which makes a huge difference if driver knows to press ONE button.

Try it, try it, try it.... Like I said, bmp2 is still on large, and it hasn't really fit the role I intended it to, supporting infantry. Gameplay videos show that the btr-80a is much more popular for mec inf.

[ComradeHX]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Rabbit

Thats my point here they are similar, the others are differences.


Hell of a lot better than crossing the single bridge to dairy farm or wind farm, or to gas station or villa for french. Not needing a CSB is pretty great.

When I tested it, it was 22 or 23 rounds from both on front armor to kill, also holding down the trigger would overheat both before a kill.


Sure, but why not try it first?


Try it, try it, try it.... Like I said, bmp2 is still on large, and it hasn't really fit the role I intended it to, supporting infantry. Gameplay videos show that the btr-80a is much more popular for mec inf.

The others are huge advantages for VBCI. Again, thermals are HUGE advantages both in fighting APC and infantry because you can see through smoke(thus making the fight very one-sided) and easily spot infantry in all those HEAVILY-WOODED areas of map.

Before, I can use skill to spot VBCI first and fire on it/rush it/kill it before it deploys smoke.
Now I have to hope for VBCI crew to be total noobs or missing right mouse button...

Again, going into water with BTR-80A == suicide(not counting flanking the LONG way or rushing in beginning of round), it's slowed down, with just one decent hit with AT-4 and it won't be getting out of water.

Have you tried to switch to HE after AP almost overheats?

BTR-80A is much more popular for mecinf? Maybe that's because BTR-80A is a lot more used for RUS than BMP-2?

I don't need to try to know that a previously tried-and-great layer was changed for no good reason.
This is just like the v1.2 civi change; it was an overly-harsh nerf that DIDN'T have enough time for testers to TRY...
How many days has it been since v1.3.0.0 came out?

Would have made a lot more sense if LRG layer is two BMP-2 and aas64 layer is 1 BMP-2 and 1 BTR-80A.

[[R-DEV]​camo]

Comrade take the chip off your shoulder, ru isn't being punished gpo wise in game. The dev team doesn't have a "west is best" attitude that you keep implying.

Yamalia has worked fine for years with lav3's vs btr80a's with one having thermals and one having a bigger and better gun. And that map has even more tree's and bushes to hide in. Actually go and play with the new gpo's on Nuijamaa before making an issue of it, if it's still unfair in your opinion create a thread in feedback.

[ComradeHX]

Originally Posted by [R-CON]camo

Comrade take the chip off your shoulder, ru isn't being punished gpo wise in game. The dev team doesn't have a "west is best" attitude that you keep implying.

Yamalia has worked fine for years with lav3's vs btr80a's with one having thermals and one having a bigger and better gun. And that map has even more tree's and bushes to hide in. Actually go and play with the new gpo's on Nuijamaa before making an issue of it, if it's still unfair in your opinion create a thread in feedback.

Yamalia bush density is a lot lower; I don't doubt that it has more trees overall, but it's also a much larger map...
Smoke launcher has not worked for years until recently.

Maybe Devs don't consciously make decisions that gimp OpFor or overbuff BluFor; but can you really say those things just happened randomly?
---
Just played a round of Nuijamaa on French side.
Was easy game; just pushed behind first two caps for Russians, kill transport/logi/fullsquads, and camped with engine off while popping smoke(with crewman kit) around APC. Killed BMP-2 easily; later BMP-2 killed second VBCI(newbie crew didn't know how to abuse thermals), but overall RUS APC got devastated, you can imagine how much worse it would be with BTR-80A that can't surely beat VBCI head-on.

French forces is easy mode if RUS does not have as many BMP-2 to counter VBCI.

[DonDOOM]

What the hell Comrade, don't you see how your attitude is pissing people off?

Giving feedback / criticism is fine, but try giving it in a way that is more on the constructive side, and less on the bitching / 'nagging because I'm obviously right' side.