Decreased accuracy with other teams weapons?

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

This is my rifle.
There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend.
It is my life.
I must master it as I must master my life.
My rifle, without me, is useless.
Without my rifle, I am useless.
I must fire my rifle true.
I must shoot straighter than my enemy,
who is trying to kill me.
I must shoot him before he shoots me.
I will.

My rifle and myself know that what counts in war,
is not the rounds of fire,
the noise of our burst,
nor the smoke we make.
We know it is the hits that count.
We will hit.

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life.
Thus, I will learn it as a brother.
I will learn its weaknesses,
its strengths,
its parts,
its accessories,
its sights and its barrel.
I will ever guard it against
the ravages of weather and damage.
I will keep my rifle clean and ready,
even as I am clean and ready.
We will become part of each other.
We will.

Before God I swear this creed.
My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country.
We are the masters of our enemy.
We are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until there is no enemy,
but Peace.

[OldSchoolSoldier]

I think it is a good idea. It will teach people to stop wasting ammo and to look for resupply from team mates

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

swapping kits eh ?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8bf_1182071062

[mammikoura]

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

swapping kits eh ?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8bf_1182071062

hmm, now I want to be able to steal kebab from the mec guy who I just killed.

[AOD_Morph]

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

This is my rifle.
There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend.
It is my life.
I must master it as I must master my life.
My rifle, without me, is useless.
Without my rifle, I am useless.
I must fire my rifle true.
I must shoot straighter than my enemy,
who is trying to kill me.
I must shoot him before he shoots me.
I will.

My rifle and myself know that what counts in war,
is not the rounds of fire,
the noise of our burst,
nor the smoke we make.
We know it is the hits that count.
We will hit.

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life.
Thus, I will learn it as a brother.
I will learn its weaknesses,
its strengths,
its parts,
its accessories,
its sights and its barrel.
I will ever guard it against
the ravages of weather and damage.
I will keep my rifle clean and ready,
even as I am clean and ready.
We will become part of each other.
We will.

Before God I swear this creed.
My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country.
We are the masters of our enemy.
We are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until there is no enemy,
but Peace.

damn you beat me

[HellDuke]

Right didn't think of the susat there but about not picking up a weapon you are not comfortable with: so you'd rather be captured or killed if you run out of ammo and you have to quickly respond. You can NEVER know what's going to happen: maybe you'll get cut off from the main force, maybe you will be pressed to hard and you won't be able to retreat to restock on ammo. It may not look as if you'd do it now, but in a situation of crisis no matter how well the soldier is trained he will do everything to stay alive - even take another weapon which he is not comfotable with.

As for the uncomforability then i rest my case do to a small gap in my knowledge there (not yet in the army) though i've been give an m16 and a ak47 to hold and aim down the sights (sadly the clips were empty ) in some kind of a festival (or how do you call it when ppl are introduced to the countries army and it's weapon) and both felt equaly comfortable (a bit heavy but i was 15 then and in the few years i've been working out) and that's why i found it hard to believe that your aim would suffer so dramaticaly

[l|Bubba|l]

Originally Posted by [R-PUB]MrD

We've got a whole chain of events here that you need to think about very carefully. Because the next few things I'm going to ask you imagine in your mind are about spacial awarenes, length of objects and seating areas.

The shoulder area (muscle and fat distribution) where the butt of the rifle (the L85A2 has several different sized stocks available, never used them personally though) when you place the butt in that "comfortable spot" there are bound to be a certain number of sizes amongst the armies 120,000 fighting troops.

Next the handgrip and trigger position will be a different distance away from the body due to that seating position on the shoulder with reference to the line going down through your head/spine/chest. Your arm will be bent to a comfortable position to fit this distance and not put your wrist at an uncomfortable angle allowing for steady and firm pressing of the trigger to reduce any trigger pulling shake that will throw off your aim.

Then the size of your hand and how you grasp the handgrip, the preferred holding angle that is comfortable for your wrist and hand. These are different because people have different shaped and sized hands, different comfortable wrist rotation.

Next we have the fact that you are now going to move your head to the rear of the SUSAT. The SUSAT can be pushed backwards and forwards somewhat on its rails. You bend your head to place your eye in a comfortable position and match the sight to that.

With moving your head to the comfortable position we now have to take other factors into account. The length of neck, the height of face to the eye . The width of eyes and width of face too.

Now bear in mind that the SUSAT is a single reticule, there is no ironsights in operation here where you line up rear and foresights. This should explain fully how any scoped weapon with a single reticule is going to be pretty innacurate in another persons hands, no matter how well trained he is as at this point, the reticule might be on a "target" when you fire, but the barrel might not be facing the target at all!!! A difference of simply one degree and you are missing everything over 100m.


The first time I was issued with a rifle, well before I was hitting the ranges with it we carried it round everywhere, slept with it when out on exercise. We practised putting the rifle into our shoulder, rising the rifle to aiming position and having a "dry" firing of it to check for shake. It was only once we were completely comfortable with our personal weapons handling that we hit the ranges and zeroed in our rifles with help from a spotter and our toolkits out to adjust the SUSAT position.

You say that you can look through the SUSAT in different angles?
The optics that I know don't let you use different angles. You would get a partial or full black sight.
It's all about the zeroing. When it's point zeroed, everyone could shoot with it. But this takes time and many shots. Lots of rifles are only partial zeroid so that the shots don't get somewhere but need a individual little hold point to shoot accurate.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Bubba you may be 6" taller than I am and that will make the sight or scope show a different point because you will be holding my weapon differently.
I do think you can pick up another persons weapon, fire a few rounds and find the zero on that weapon but that would depend on your weapon handling skills and your experience.
A 15yo in Basra will not have the same chance to find a strange weapons zero as a SAS soldier with 15 years experience.

[l|Bubba|l]

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

Bubba you may be 6" taller than I am and that will make the sight or scope show a different point because you will be holding my weapon differently.

Why should that make any difference?
Do you have a other hold point when you get from standing to kneel?

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

I do think you can pick up another persons weapon, fire a few rounds and find the zero on that weapon but that would depend on your weapon handling skills and your experience.
A 15yo in Basra will not have the same chance to find a strange weapons zero as a SAS soldier with 15 years experience.

What do you wan't to say?
I never said that everyone could use a none point zeroed weapon.

[MrD]

I think that on a smooth range you might be able to find out where your rounds are going and you could then try and remember that each shot you fire looking down the scope from then on (in the same holding position)you had to fire, for example, to the lower left of the target to hit it in the same place your own rifle would.

But off a range, firing in the heat of battle, are you sure you are going to see where your round strikes, let alone have the wherewithal to slot that in your memory, work out where you should be firing in future and remember every single time that is where you should be aiming instead?

Modern rifles have scopes and they become individual weapons as a result.

This problem doesn't occur with ironsight rifles though, except where unusual stocks are used My air rifle tucked in a cupboard and gathering dust was too long for me. It didn't have stock extensions of any kind so as a trained joiner I knew how to deal with the wood stock, cutting off a section and curving it to fit my shoulder then sanding it for a nice fit and varnishing it. The scope is extremely slimline and other people trying to use it complain they can't hold it right and see the reticule properly and get the target in sight. The SUSAT is a huge device really, you can see the reticule from too great a deviance angle and people using someone elses SUSAT equipped rifle will 'think' they can shoot fine with it, but the angle of deviation due to rifle fit as a result of the technical side of fitting allows a large deviation issue.