Crouch to standing shot accuracy

[[R-DEV]​Tim270]

I think you are talking about something completely different to the thread....

[Smiddey723]

Originally Posted by Lord Jesus

taking out campers who think they should never die due to their ignorance of tactics.

This is a realism game, there is no such thing as camping in realism games

Originally Posted by Lord Jesus

1) what does this have anything to with the thread
2) they are british snipers not french

My opinion on this tactic is that it is a balanced tactic to use and think its a legitimate tactic to use as you can only ever use it in limited places. i think the tactic is also balanced for both the people in the exchange of fire. for the person who is bobbing up and down, they have a hard time hitting you because they have very little time to correct their shot from the previous one and if they stay up for a little longer they get killed by the other.

if you come up against one of these "bobbers" and think they have an unfair advantage, flank them

jobz a gudun

[Lord Jesus]

Originally Posted by Smiddey723

This is a realism game, there is no such thing as camping in realism games



1) what does this have anything to with the thread
2) they are british snipers not french

My opinion on this tactic is that it is a balanced tactic to use and think its a legitimate tactic to use as you can only ever use it in limited places. i think the tactic is also balanced for both the people in the exchange of fire. for the person who is bobbing up and down, they have a hard time hitting you because they have very little time to correct their shot from the previous one and if they stay up for a little longer they get killed by the other.

if you come up against one of these "bobbers" and think they have an unfair advantage, flank them

jobz a gudun

Then give us a 4th stance so we can look over cover when we are below the eye level of the wall. Because in real life, all I can peek over things and kill people who lay down without cover. Because if this is reality, in reality you can look over objects and kill campers in real life. I see them first always in real life, but because this is a video game. We can't spot campers without exposing our bodies. Therefore a fast peek and duck down can allow the quick shooters to be able to get their kills. In real life. some shooters can fire perfect reflex. Just because the majority of shooters can't. We shouldn't ban those guys from getting kills from their gift. WAR IS NOT EQUAL. We are not assuming all soldiers take this set limited time before they can hit a target. I can outshoot people in the range all the time, I am not gonna be demoted to their skill level!

[BenHamish]

I like the idea of popping up/crouching more slowly.

And Jesus, if you are leaning your weapon on a wall and have it trained on an enemy and then he ducks behind a wall, do you not have the advantage?

If he pops up with this exploit and intends to kill you, he is reacting. Seeing as reaction is slower than action, shouldn't you be able to get off the first, most accurate shot?

To be fair, I see your point, and currently the game is fair in my opinion. That said I can't stand the people who 'tap' the crouch button 5 times a second.

Usually I rely on their inaccuracy/impatience, and bad timing to shoot them when they pop up. Most people can;t resist popping up and trying to kill you if you are covering them. 7 times out of 10 I will be able to time my shot so it kills them.

It's hardcoded that deviation cannot be added when popping up, so people will have to learn to live with it. The option of slowing down crouching/standing is an interesting one though, and subject for discussion

[ytman]

If you slow down standing it would help save this from being a total exploit and would be the best inbetween from Jesus' and mostly everyone else position.

No peak means no danger, even peaking slightly exposes yourself to fire, without peak means that what Jesus calls a 'peak like feature' is more or less 'uber peak' where the peaker has the advantage of timing (only he knows when he will pop up) and accuracy (the aggressor might be out in the open in the middle of an attack). The 'surpressor' has only one advantage, making the guy keep his head down, which also counteracts his goal of killing the opponent as each 'surpressing shot' is both rarely effective and decreases his ammo count.

This popping up turns a situation where the roles of attacker and defender, and the inherent benifits given to any attacking force, are reversed due to a completely unrealistic reason. The defender, in a situation that should be to his detriment (ducking due to fire and attack), is now granted immunity to the attack and then given the ability to return fire accurately at any time of his discresion. In a situation where the defender realistically loses all advantages but cover he gains so much more.

This popping option has really deterred charge based assaults which, despite all the love of the community to flanking, is still an important part of the assault. Without the charge how can you efficiently exploit a flank?

[badmojo420]

Comparing this to the prone diving deviation. Some might argue that with prone deviation, people will never be able to go prone and return fire effectively. Which is just not true. They can do so if they remember to simulate getting settled. Of course, if you insist on playing PR like other video games, and move your mouse and mash those keys as fast as possible, you'll miss horribly.

I will always trade having to show more personal restraint in conducting myself in PR, if it means I will see less exploiting of game engine bugs. This is the basis for my support of crouch to stand deviation.

[Lord Jesus]

Originally Posted by BenHamish

I like the idea of popping up/crouching more slowly.

And Jesus, if you are leaning your weapon on a wall and have it trained on an enemy and then he ducks behind a wall, do you not have the advantage?

If he pops up with this exploit and intends to kill you, he is reacting. Seeing as reaction is slower than action, shouldn't you be able to get off the first, most accurate shot?

To be fair, I see your point, and currently the game is fair in my opinion. That said I can't stand the people who 'tap' the crouch button 5 times a second.

Usually I rely on their inaccuracy/impatience, and bad timing to shoot them when they pop up. Most people can;t resist popping up and trying to kill you if you are covering them. 7 times out of 10 I will be able to time my shot so it kills them.

It's hardcoded that deviation cannot be added when popping up, so people will have to learn to live with it. The option of slowing down crouching/standing is an interesting one though, and subject for discussion

If two forces identify each others location. The one who uses cover effectively will win over the other shooter who doesn't use any cover. Obviously the way the current system is now is not realistic, because you can't actually duck down and stand up that fast with a perfect firing stance. But in real life, it is possible to stand up slowly with a perfect trained stance that would have zero deviation. However if we add deviation to this current system. There would be far too much advantage to those who just sit and camp all day. I'm sorry but I am one of those players who runs towards the direction of the enemy and takes out a entire squad by myself because I know when to use cover and fire. I don't camp and if they change the system, I will be forced to play like others and it's very boring. I agree that implanting a fast duck, and slow stand would probably fix this issue.

[badmojo420]

Originally Posted by Lord Jesus

If two forces identify each others location. The one who uses cover effectively will win over the other shooter who doesn't use any cover.

So if I sit there and aim at where you're going to expose yourself, you're saying you can peak out and kill me before I can pull the trigger and kill you? (Speaking in real life here)

Originally Posted by Lord Jesus

Obviously the way the current system is now is not realistic, because you can't actually duck down and stand up that fast with a perfect firing stance.

I'm glad you understand that very important point in this discussion.

Originally Posted by Lord Jesus

But in real life, it is possible to stand up slowly with a perfect trained stance that would have zero deviation. However if we add deviation to this current system. There would be far too much advantage to those who just sit and camp all day. I'm sorry but I am one of those players who runs towards the direction of the enemy and takes out a entire squad by myself because I know when to use cover and fire. I don't camp and if they change the system, I will be forced to play like others and it's very boring. I agree that implanting a fast duck, and slow stand would probably fix this issue.

I'm not going to say how you play PR is wrong. But it's not how I think the game should be played.

I'll just say that you seem to play the game like you're in the special forces, when you should be acting like you're standard front line infantry. Less running and gunning, more digging in and holding your ground, or advancing as a team. And camping isn't a bad thing in PR, don't be hating on it.

[BenHamish]

Originally Posted by Lord Jesus

If two forces identify each others location. The one who uses cover effectively will win over the other shooter who doesn't use any cover. Obviously the way the current system is now is not realistic, because you can't actually duck down and stand up that fast with a perfect firing stance. But in real life, it is possible to stand up slowly with a perfect trained stance that would have zero deviation.

I do very much see your point here, i.e. it would be silly to add deviation for standing because IRL you CAN actually pop up after getting your gear ready and settling down for the shot from behind cover.

As mentioned though I swear deviation when standing [from crouch] is hardcoded, so no point discussing it guys.

Originally Posted by Lord Jesus

However if we add deviation to this current system. There would be far too much advantage to those who just sit and camp all day.

Agreed. (That said though, if somebody has me pinned down behind cover the last thing I do is pop up and try and kill them, I relocate).

Originally Posted by Lord Jesus

I'm sorry but I am one of those players who runs towards the direction of the enemy and takes out a entire squad by myself because I know when to use cover and fire. I don't camp and if they change the system, I will be forced to play like others and it's very boring. I agree that implanting a fast duck, and slow stand would probably fix this issue.

If you know how to use cover and fire, you're actually taking advantage of the same thing that the 'campers' are encouraged to do (use the game's supression facility to encourage the enemy to stop firing back).

I can't stand campers either (although tactically it makes a lot of sense sometimes), but it strikes me that a good mid-ground would be slowing down the crouch to standing time would be a good answer for everyone.


I'd be interested to hear a dev comment on this, or one of the MA's, just to see if this is pointless conversation or whether it's worth discussing. Or if we're all talking bs.

[Lord Jesus]

Thou SHALL RECEIVE TRAINING BEFORE MY RETURN.

PRAISE TO GOD, Hezbollah, Abdullah

Edit: User infracted for "flame baiting". Such behavior isn't accepted on these forums.