Nade spam ruins .7 tactical infantry combat

[Zybon]

Look at the example maps Wolfe gave. Those aren't "confined area" maps, its maps that have a lot of ground cover and buildings that let you stand near them without actually obstructing splash damage. The situations are
A: You take a couple shots causing the people to go prone (or otherwise obstruct your view,) since you can't see them due to the ground cover you just toss nades into the area.
B: You see someone advancing and for whatever reason they don't see you (very common in any of the woodsy maps.) It's much easier to simply toss a grenade and get a surefire kill than it is to gamble with taking shots with your rifle, which also gives away your position to everyone else in the area.

[Masaq]

Baseballs are slightly larger than the M67 then

9.25 / 3.14 = 2.94 inch diameter


Anyways, another way of reducing 'nade spade would be to up the damage on the F1 so that it injures the user if the user isn't behind cover (as it does in real life).

Then, F1 grenades would only be useable where they were being chucked into buildings or when the user has substantial cover.

But yeah, throw distance needs to be toned down slightly. Around 25m on the default left-click, 35 for the lengthier right-click-and-hold throw, would be good.

[Ironcomatose]

Originally Posted by Brood

I honestly don't have this problem. I find that most engagements are long range engagements though. Or from behind hard cover, so nades aren't really a huge problem.

Yeah same here i dont have this issue. I was playing OGT last night where i was SL and everytime the enemy came in close the thing we feared most was their shotgun(damn fuzzhead with your screaming!!). I'd admit when the north bridge went grey we would lob nades to retake it but thats the only time we or the enemy used the grenade tactic.

[Rico11b]

Originally Posted by [T]BludShoT

I'd like to see the game evolve not by removing things that get you killed. You've already removed weapon accuracy, and before that TG's server had removed via rules a bunch of other tactics that got them killed. Once you have nerfed the nades, you will start getting killed by another tactic and come on here saying how that tactic needs to be removed too. If you didn't want nade spamming to be so relatively effective compared to actually shooting guns, then you shouldn't have pushed ruining the accuracy of the guns.

Me too, and I think the game is evolving. You can already see a change in needed/effective tactics emerging.
I don't think anyone has asked that the nades be "nerfed". Have they? At least I am not. I would like to see the throw distances come down just a bit. But not it's killing power.
Did you think that small arms accuracy was more realistic in .6 release? No disrespect intended, but if you did, then I think you may have missed the boat. There are two worlds out there concerning small arms rifles. One is the civilian/consumer world and the other is the MIL SPEC world. Now Sniper and Marksman rifles are in a different league so I'm not referring to them. MIL SPEC assault rifles are supplied by the cheapest bidder. Civilian and/or consumer grade rifles and ammo ARE a good bit better quality than MIL SPEC. You get what you pay for. No way would I accept the kind of accuracy one gets from a Military issue assault rifle over one that I purchased myself from the private sector with my own money. If I bought a rifle that has the same accuracy as a standard issue rifle, I would take it back and insist on my refund. Rifle accuracy in .7 release is a good bit closer to realistic expectations than we ever had in .6 release. The armies of the world only wish they could afford to arm their troops with the kind of accurate weapons we had in PR.6. Sorry for falling off topic. Back to nade stuff.

R

[Gyberg]

... I dont encounter nadespam, or maybe it is because I dont think of it as spam, I think of it as a valid real life tactic that ALL modern armies train there soldiers to use!

[Wolfe]

Originally Posted by [R-MOD]Masaq

Nade spam is nasty, but realisitic.

The Javelin is realistic, but voted to be overpowered.
Multiple JDAM's are realistic, but limited to 1 per hour.
Bullet accuracy is realistic, but reduced over distance.

Clearly there are things in the game that could be, or would be considered "realistic" but they are not included or are modified in favor of better gameplay. So the argument of nade spamming isn't an argument about realism, it's an argument about what tactics are deemed balanced and interesting gameplay.

The whole point of reducing weapon accuracy was to promote more intense firefights by forcing us closer together. Now that we're closer, realistic firefights are being nullified by closemyeyesandpray nade spamming.

"Our military advisers tell us..." I have the utmost respect for those who have served in the armed forces, from the lowest private to the highest general. But while they may be experts in military hardware and tactics, it doesn't mean that it can directly translate to in-game hardware and tactics.

Military advisers are just that, advisers, and shouldn't be used as gaming law or dictating the flow of gameplay. After all, having fun is the ultimate goal here and an infinite barrage of nades isn't very fun. Or is it? Otherwise, why not revert back to the .6 bullet deviation where everything was a guaranteed headshot at long range? Nades are a guaranteed headshot at close range.

There is 1 critical difference between realistic warefare and realistic gameplay:

One is designed to be fun and fair.
The other is designed to be overpowering and dieyousonofabitch brutal.

We can't just substitute one for the other and say "it's realistic so it stays". If it does stay, let's be clear about the reason. Not because it's realistic, but because we're willing to tolerate its effect on fairness and fun.

[Waaah_Wah]

Yeah lets start nerfing the game

[Wolfe]

Originally Posted by Waaah_Wah

Yeah lets start nerfing the game

Every change is a nerf. C'mon...

PR is in a state of development and it takes multiple changes to fine-tune balance and gameflow. One change here affects three things over there. With each release, some things need to be decreased, others increased.

[Waaah_Wah]

Nades are fine. I dont die more from nades than i die from bullets, sure it can be annoying to shoot a guy just for him to toss a nade at you, but thats a very valid tactic from his side. Try to engage ppl from longer distances, it works for me and i see no reasons why it should work for you

[Rico11b]

I really don't give a dam about how MANY grenades are tossed into an area. That doesn't bother me at all. If you got them, toss them. They are a lot cheaper than a human life.

It's the distance that players are able to toss nades, even while being fired at. Doesn't matter if it's one person firing at them or 10 guys. They will still jump right up and throw a nade 50+ meters. Most of the time they are killed but only after they have tossed a nade and blew the hell out of a decent defensive plan. Doesn't matter to them cause they'll just spawn back in game after 30 seconds. That's not realistic tactics to me, that's just being a smacktard! If you aren't trying to play PR with some realism in mind, then why bother. After all it is supposed to be a "REALITY BASED MOD" isn't it?

Suicide is a viable tactic if you are an insurgent, but to many times I've seen players on MEC and US/Brit forces do the same thing. These forces aren't supposed to be running around trying to blow themselves up or suicide by gun fire just to toss a nade some unreasonable distance. US troops aren't in the business of suicide unless it's an act of heroism to save their buddies.

R