Badhis Mountains Feedback

[PFunk]

Originally Posted by Web_cole

The concept behind the FoB flag seems an interesting one at first, but in gameplay terms it proved to be an extreme liability for the Blufor. There being no repair station in main obviously gives the Blufor some serious incentive to defend and keep the flag, but it quickly became very obvious to most of us on Canada that it was not worth it.

Vs the potential ticket drain of 30 tickets every time the flag is lost, in addition to the ticket drain of actually defending the flag (to say nothing of the man power taken away from attacking caches on a 32 man team) it puts the Blufor at a major disadvantage. At least 2 people pointed out that it would cost us substantially less tickets to destroy our own logi trucks every time we needed supplies. During the playtest the Canadian squads were ordered by their CO to "Not re-cap einharjer under any circumstances."

I would also note that the positioning of the flag itself made it difficult for Blufor to reinforce and to utilise the repair station, and it would have been easier for the Blufor to do so had the flag been placed more Southerly on the map (although this wouldn't really go anywhere towards addressing the other issues.)

Basically everything here.

Its the most nonsensical BLUFOR burden. Lost 60 tickets plus probably another 20 at least defending it. Lost the Kiowa on the pad cause the place was permanently underattack so another 10 (I forget what it really is), so we're at 90. We lost with 2 caches left to destroy so, really if yo look at it defending that FOB flag basically killed the BLUFOR chance at victory, even though BLUFOR was basically mobbing the floor with the Taliban.

Add to this the fact that we were running a 2-1 KDR, finding and killing caches, with almost no FOBs, and no Mortars. Basically we kicked ass at a severe disadvantage and we lost cause of the ticket burdens that come from the flag.

Its insurgency, you shouldn't have to defend when you're the ones doing the clearance. There is absolutely no burden placed on the Taliban while all the price is paid by the BLUFOR. If it were a straight up defend the flag scenario for some minor BLUFOR advantage alright maybe. But with the Kiowa pad there and the resupply there you basically make it so that you have to run through RPG and IED alley to get more supplies.

When the game mechanics as designed become more of a liability than doing a "work around" like blowing up your own Logi truck to get mor supplies then you're doing something wrong.

In the end what did BLUFOR do? No Kiowa, no FOBs, no Mortars, no Bradley, just walk around on foot, sweep for caches, and still kick ass but paid in defeat because the flag screwed us.

In all it was kind of cool. A very stripped down infantry focused insurgency match. Not at bad map at all. Just don't like that FOB. Might as well just have no assets whatsoever cause its just going to be a ticket drain.

The worst fact about it all is the fact that I was the Commander of the US for the event, I ordered guys not to the cap the flag or go near it, and they still had trouble listening to me. In a public match with no commander... I think it'll be the reason Blufor loses that map over and over if its in the final version.

[sweedensniiperr]

Originally Posted by PFunk

even though BLUFOR was basically mobbing the floor with the Taliban.

as if...

[Arc_Shielder]

Originally Posted by sweedensniiperr

as if...

Indeed, there was even time for some Abba music.

[Brainlaag]

Originally Posted by PFunk

The worst fact about it all is the fact that I was the Commander of the US for the event, I ordered guys not to the cap the flag or go near it, and they still had trouble listening to me. In a public match with no commander... I think it'll be the reason Blufor loses that map over and over if its in the final version.

Ah that severe mental disease of people in public matches following blindly the orange shield-icon, I see your point

Originally Posted by Arcturus_Shielder

Indeed, there was even time for some Abba music.

Remind me next time not to hesitate from shooting anyone in Akiba's squad.

I can just agree with Web and Funk, the FOB is more of a burden, especially since the repair station is in it. But I have to add that some caches have too little cover and with the huge view distance, one good M249 on a hilltop can suppress anyone in the vicinity, making it quite easy to overrun the location. As such, if you change the repair station position back to the original main, it seems to be more reasonable to remove the Kiowa completely, although that might require some testing.

Overall, the terrain to the north is still too bland, if you manage to make it look like the southern parts of the map, gameplay will surely benefit from it greatly.

[Web_cole]

Originally Posted by Brainlaag

Ah that severe mental disease of people in public matches following blindly the orange shield-icon, I see your point

Ha, the irony of that never occurred to me before; "zomg u guys, stop like, capping the flags! wht are u stupid or something? Jeez!"

A couple of other things:



I'm also getting the green light weirdness at the FoB. Settings: All High.




This rock at the cave cache is possible to rope right through the small hole into the cave very easily.




Possible issue with the dry riverbed terrain. During the playtest we drove our Humvee through it for 20/30 secs or so and it went on fire. I tried to recreate this and spent about a couple of mins driving around in the riverbed and eventually the humvee went on fire.

[Rudd]

Possible issue with the dry riverbed terrain. During the playtest we drove our Humvee through it for 20/30 secs or so and it went on fire. I tried to recreate this and spent about a couple of mins driving around in the riverbed and eventually the humvee went on fire.

probably need to check what material was assigned to that detailtexture

btw, I'm looking at the groundhemi, you definately have a random greenspot under the FOB.

Groundhemis are a bit wierd, I'd suggest just fixing it by hand

the point of the groundhemi is to reflect colour from the ground onto dynamic objects to make them feel more natural, e.g. on a nightmap you need a very dark groundhemi to make the dynamic objects dark

[40mmrain]

Firstly, I'd like to comment on how many areas of the map were improved. The old hesco taliban main was removed for a small village, the caches just right out in the open were reinforced a little, and generally more stuff was added to the map. I like that I really do.

However, some design choices you've made I simply dont agree with. Basically all of that falls under the main bases, and the fob itself. Firstly the taliban's main is a little awkwardly placed, as another poster pointed out. It falls right next to a cache and cuts it off a little bit too much for the americans. Two solutions. Make the current talib main a cache, and make a new one stuffed all the way in the northwest corner. That way it wont be suspect to BLUFOR fire from the fob, or too near any caches. Second choice is making the current talib main a cache, leaving the repair net there, BUT going korengal style, and make the default spawn a point that randomly dumps you around the map at various compounds and such, meaning there is no effective taliban main, both should work.

SEcondly, the US main and the FOB. I simply cant agree with repair net, command vehicle and kiowa pad in the fob. I am no military expert, though I have watched some documentaries, and done some reading on present wars, and to my knowledge under no circumstances would a helicopter be deployed right on the front lines like that. It's a little silly. Not only will this cause issues of killing the chopper on take off, mortaring it, or whatever, but it's unrealistic. The mainbases in PR unfortunately cant be far enough to simulate the real distance a chopper would have to fly, but putting it back in that field in the southwest was probably the best option, simply because it simulates having the chopper removed from the battle until it wants to be, like it ought to be. Next, the repair net inside the fob is also questionable to me. The reason for this to me is that, it again isnt consistent with the idea of the fob. The FOB on bagdhis, is nothing more than a hole in the ground to dig in against the enemy. It's not a barracks and vehicle depot. The vehicle depot promotes bradley kind of camping it up there, and provides unlimited ammo to the troops there. This is the type of FOB that gets helicopter drops, has mortar pits, machine gun emplacements and TOW missile emplacements used regularly as defensive assets. The kind of base that needs those supply drops constantly. Now it's more like a main base, with no room to build mortars, and such. To me, this map is going to be really challenging for the Norwegians, with deep in the map cave caches, and fire support limited to one armour piece, this fob was going to be the main asset in assisting the attack it becomes an attackable main that's hard to defend. That's a liability, which makes the map especially hard, perhaps too hard like korengal. I strongly believe that the command vehicle, helipad, and repair net should be pulled back to the far southwest of the map again, as they are nice and removed from the frontlines, simulating the fact that to resupply a truck, repair a vehicle or rearm a helicopter, you would need to go back to a large base, not some hole in the ground on the frontlines.

We want the fob to be a defense-able asset for the blufor that is a good firing platform for mortars, vehicles, and requires constant resupplying, this being a good means of keeping the team in check. That is to say, it forces players to work together, which is the goal of PR as far as I know. So, to transform from a liability to an asset, we of course remove the ability to have what is essentially a mainbase, completely lost, so that means relocating all of the assets that come with main to the fields in the southwest. Next, the FOB itself should be revamped so that you can actually shoot out of the FOB. Ill illustrate this with some images, but basically Im going to compare the BAgdhis FOB, to the VCP in Al Basrah. The problems with the fob itself are that, there is no place to build assets that can shoot out of the fob, you can see over the hescos, there is no overhead cover for incoming enemy mortars, and in the final design there should be enough room for a fob, and mortar pits to be dug.

In Al basrah we see all of these things, but not in Bagdhis. It's really awkward to operate in the fob at bagdhis when you cant properly return fire. Here are some steps to fix this.

Follow the link: Photo Album - Imgur. These images demonstrate things in basrah's VCP that need to be copied. These are things that need to happen.

1)being able to first over the hescos. You simply cant do this in Bagdhis, it's stupid, sink the hescos lower so we can shoot over them, note the basrah and bagdhis images.
2)some solid overhead cover for mortars. Mortars are a huge hardcounter to the fob, a place to hide like in the pic would be nice. The exact same static isnt necessary, but an underground, or something like the village in the south on burning sands?
3) Places to put TOWs and HMGs. If that means just having a stack of sand next to the hecos where you can build things, fine, but not being to use assets hurts
4) room for mortars and a fob. Unless you build on the heli there just isnt enough room.

Finally, the map needs a trans helo to resupply the fob, a single truck just doesnt cut it.

In conclusion the changes I suggest are: Remove the main on the highway, pull it back to the original spot, change the taliban main to the northwest, fix the fob, give BLUFOR a trans helo.

Also, since we're losing the kiowa on the final setup, a little more firepower for the norwegians would be nice. Are any of the light vehicles going to have CROWS like weapons, or mark19s? Some of those to suppplement the CV9030 would be good.

[PFunk]

I still completely disagree with the FOB concept. Unless it has a significant amount of top cover it just becomes mortar bait for the Taliban. They don't need to attack it, they just need to let it remain populated and slowly bleed tickets from the team. Why assault frontally when you can just drop death from a kilometer away?

Before the advent of motars in PR I'd say it could work, but not with mortars, not unless its a castle with total top cover and the ability to fight from the battlements without risking meaningful death from mortars. Even so I still hate the idea of giving BLUFOR an outpost to defend outside the wire. Its just a burden. It doesn't encourage teamwork except at the expense of tickets for no meaningful gain.

They removed the flag from Korengal, they removed it from the south of Kokan. Its just not feasible. Anybody who has half a brain knows that on Basrah you grab the trucks and landys and you ditch VCP because its just going to get mortar'd, RPG'd and car bombed for no gain.

[40mmrain]

1) use UAV
2) find mortars instantly
3) mortar their mortars

mortars are easy to counter, and they dont just annihilate everything especially with proper top cover, which the FOB certainly could have. Basrah's VCP is only worthless because it's not in a relevant point. It's removed from the map, it's not in range of any cache. HOwever, the FOB is. It's a fortress that should be able to see at least 30-40% of the caches, it wont be a liability, youre overrating mortars Further still, with a kiowa or an armed Bell 412 mortars are very easy to search and destroy, especially on a map with very limited locations to conceal mortars. Enough towers that you can fire out of, a basement like area (see: the village to the south on burning sands), and mortars wont do much

Korengal's flag was abandoned because it's a horrible, horrible map. Kokan's was in a pointless location.

[baltimore]

will NF will have any flags ,norwegian symbol and can fight as pary of blufor eith russia,china,mec even with insurgent