Will guns and bullets do realistic damage? Body armor.

[labonte95]

Originally Posted by PLA

Also, other things that REALLY bugs the hell out of me in Battlefield 4:

Bullet velocity,
For example:

M40A5 - real muzzle velocity: 777m/s --- in BF4: 480 m/s

SCAR-H - real muzzle velocity: 714m/s --- in BF4: 410 m/s

M240B - real muzzle velocity: 853m/s --- in BF4: 610 m/s

MK11 - real muzzle velocity: 783m/s --- in BF4: 550 m/s

M16A4 - real muzzle velocity: 948m/s --- in BF4: 650 m/s

Why DICE?

Other gun damage,
For example:

The .50 cal (12.7mm) vehicle machine guns - 25 damage vs infantry

25mm High Explosive Shell from Infantry Fighting Vehicles - 70 damage vs infantry

7.62mm Minigun on Helicopters - 8.5 damage vs infantry

30mm cannon from Jets and Anti-Air vehicles - 17 damage vs infantry

20mm cannon from Fighter Jets - 6.25 damage vs infantry

Compare that to the M40a5 - 7.62mm - 100 max damage vs infantry at point blank

Why DICE? Are you telling me that it takes six 30mm rounds to kill me but only one 7.62mm sniper round to kill me? How do you have a 20mm round from a fighter jet do only 6.25 damage when a 7.62mm sniper does 100 damage?

im not backing up dice or anything but you do realize this is strictly for balance right? BF4 is NO WHERE near a realistic shooter, hence, these unrealistic damage models. bf4 with realistic damage and bullet velocity would be more awful than the game is now, SNIPERS EVERYWHERE

[Brainlaag]

Originally Posted by labonte95

im not backing up dice or anything but you do realize this is strictly for balance right? BF4 is NO WHERE near a realistic shooter, hence, these unrealistic damage models. bf4 with realistic damage and bullet velocity would be more awful than the game is now, SNIPERS EVERYWHERE

Or IFVs dominanting the battlefield on their own, or helicopters wrecking havoc and jets being too fast to even get a lock on. BF doesn't try to be realistic, merely deliver casual gameplay in a somewhat authentic scenario witout achieving balance through outside factors but equal footing for both teams.

[Allan Davidson]

@Gamekiller, yes, but the physics that I was talking to be done client-side was related to collision with scenario and objects, characters and assets will need their own damage system, like hit boxes and pre-scripted deterioration.

And as I said, everything needs to be data-tight, the client must be aware of all collisions that could happen in a certain scenarion, and a some scripted destruction animation with some general physics could help even in client performance. Take a tree for example, you dont have to calculate each shot it takes and made progressive deformation, with accurate bullet penetration and particle system, you just need to take in account the shot received [9mm, 5.56, 7.62...], the hit location and bullet direction. Then it set damage effect on object based on bullet data [a decal, texture change, model deformation, destruction animation...] in the hit location and the real physics [when needed, if needed] just threw the deformed/destructed object in the same direction as the bullet. A single 64-bitstring should be enough to carry all this information.

Also, you are right about hacking. Kills and Vehicle Damages needs to be certified by server, but it would be better to make the client send the kill information and the server only `officialize` it, cuz if the server keep doing ballistics calculations to determine hits would be very intensive, causing stutter and package loss.

[I-Omer-I]

BF doesn't aim to be realistc. It doesn't compare with PR. Bullet damages aren't real, because if yo make real bullet damage on all weapons, you die quickly and don't have enjoy in game. Sometimes I play BF. You can kill 5-10 enemy until you die and you do everything in game. In PR you are a soldier, not a Rambo.

Now, for bullet damage in game:

5.56x45 mm NATO : %33,3-50
7.62x39 mm : %40-55
7.62x51 mm NATO : %50-65
9x19mm PARA : %30-40
7.62x54mmR : %55-65
12.7x99mm : %90-100...

And it must be critical damage for head, heart and liver. If bullet hit one of them, soldier don't save.

Originally Posted by I-Omer-I

BF doesn't aim to be realistc. It doesn't compare with PR. Bullet damages aren't real, because if yo make real bullet damage on all weapons, you die quickly and don't have enjoy in game. Sometimes I play BF. You can kill 5-10 enemy until you die and you do everything in game. In PR you are a soldier, not a Rambo.

Now, for bullet damage in game:

5.56x45 mm NATO : %33,3-50
7.62x39 mm : %40-55
7.62x51 mm NATO : %50-65
9x19mm PARA : %30-40
7.62x54mmR : %55-65
12.7x99mm : %90-100...

And it must be critical damage for head, heart and liver. If bullet hit one of them, soldier don't save.

Cant we do something like in arma 3 and use the speed that the bullet uses to leave the barrel + the calculation of the size to make damage and the way it loses energy in the way it goes?

[Allan Davidson]

Originally Posted by Dr_Death

Cant we do something like in arma 3 and use the speed that the bullet uses to leave the barrel + the calculation of the size to make damage and the way it loses energy in the way it goes?

This will be heavy to perform both on clients and servers. Imagine all this calculation on every single shot. I dunno, I think is better to have predefined characteristics for each gun and just do a single calculation: the hit location.

eg: Standard G3A3 shot 7.62mm rounds at 800m/s, have an effective range of 500 meters with good precision. Suppose the Dev put all G3A3 characteristics in the game, and store it in the '03A1' slot in the bullet data index. Every time you shoot someone, only this data will be shared, and the server will pickup this data and will make the damage calculation based in hit location.

Originally Posted by Allan Davidson

This will be heavy to perform both on clients and servers. Imagine all this calculation on every single shot. I dunno, I think is better to have predefined characteristics for each gun and just do a single calculation: the hit location.

eg: Standard G3A3 shot 7.62mm rounds at 800m/s, have an effective range of 500 meters with good precision. Suppose the Dev put all G3A3 characteristics in the game, and store it in the '03A1' slot in the bullet data index. Every time you shoot someone, only this data will be shared, and the server will pickup this data and will make the damage calculation based in hit location.

Isn't that almost the same thing? but the lag between client-server on the thing i mentioned is up to the use of physx or not, BIS thought it was a good idea to use them when it made giant server lag to all clients, but if its not required for the ballistics, then PR2 will be able to feature actual realistic physics on bullets using almost no lag at all.

[I-Omer-I]

Multiplayer server will be problem for ballistic range and bullet speed, but it can be in singleplayer.

[Allan Davidson]

The all major problems with solutions that came up until now is the hit detection on players / accurate and lag free kill confirm. This grows in the opposite side of realistic ballistics and physics.

Also, Single Player?

Originally Posted by Allan Davidson

The all major problems with solutions that came up until now is the hit detection on players / accurate and lag free kill confirm. This grows in the opposite side of realistic ballistics and physics.

Also, Single Player?

Wish it could be expanded, maybe as both a training and a co-op mode.


Co-op would be to have all the amounts on the MP (imagine 100-200p) aganist even more AI to make the match more realistic.


On the other hand, in a lack of players i think there is the chance to make every player a squad leader with AI.