Nade spam ruins .7 tactical infantry combat

[HABO3]

if nades are kept at 4 per rifleman, they should have a very small insta-kill radius and a large wound radius. that way one nade will make you bleed but two or more are needed to kill should the nades be thrown only in your general area (spamming) where they might fall further away. obviously if the fucker rolls right under your feet you should be blowns to bits but this way frag grenades become more of a prepatory device prior to an infantry assault rather than cheap instakills.

[Masaq]

Originally Posted by Wolfe

One is designed to be fun and fair.
The other is designed to be overpowering and dieyousonofabitch brutal.

We can't just substitute one for the other and say "it's realistic so it stays". If it does stay, let's be clear about the reason. Not because it's realistic, but because we're willing to tolerate its effect on fairness and fun.

Hold on, the issue here isn't *fairnes*. It's *FAIR* because *both* sides spawn with the same number of nades that do the same damage that can be thrown the same distance.

You can argue, as Rico does, that nades should be thrown a more realistic distance - and I agree with that, and I'd also like to see the F1 grenade realistically hurt the guy throwing it if he doesn't take cover, too.

But you can't argue that nade spam isn't fair when there are several things you can do to limit the chances of you getting hit by a grenade, including throw your own nades.

Personally, my heart is gladened when someone starts hurling grenades at me in open combat (ie, not CQB):

First, I only have to run 3m away from the landing-point of the grenade to not be killed by it.
Secondly, I only have to run about 8-9m away from the grenade to be merely shocked by it, not badly hurt.
Thirdly, the B****d who just threw it at me now has a monster reload time, OR a reasonably long ready time as he pulls his gun back up.

That's more than time enough to drop to one knee, take aim and pop three rounds through his chest.

[Zybon]

Originally Posted by [R-MOD]Masaq

Hold on, the issue here isn't *fairnes*. It's *FAIR* because *both* sides spawn with the same number of nades that do the same damage that can be thrown the same distance.

It's about fairness on the attacker vs defender level, not the team "who starts with what" level. When you say that you can just move away, you are arguing that it is fair because of that. So yes, "fairness" is something that can be discussed.

[Razick]

You guys arent seeing what the problem with nades really is and that is the robotic accuracy and superhuman range. When a guy can full sprint, pull out a grenade and release it quickly and accurately it just gets ridiculous. I believe the Devs should add deviation or random accuracy and range with the quick release left button and the slow accurate throw with the right. Right now tossing grenades is more like working a catapult were all you have to do is put it to were you had it aimed last time and get the same exact results. Nothing hinders the accurate throw expecpt dying and its extremely annoying. Taking 4 shots to chest will not stop you from throwing a NFL QB pass to your shooter.

[Wolfe]

To be clear, "fairness and fun" is the overall goal of any vs. type game. In terms of nade spamming, it ruins the "fun" aspect when it's overused and overshadows other meaningful tactics in the game.

If both commanders could rain down JDAMS every 30 seconds, it would be "fair", since both sides have them, but it certainly wouldn't be fun except for the two guys pressing the button.

Limiting nade distance would help, as well as deviation and a load time before throwing (all good ideas) but I still believe that too many classes have nades and it reminds me of the old "noob tube" days of Mao Valley. I loved that map; it was all about tactical infantry combat, but the noob toob spammers turned it into a mindless meat grinder.

[Alex6714]

Originally Posted by Razick

You guys arent seeing what the problem with nades really is and that is the robotic accuracy and superhuman range. When a guy can full sprint, pull out a grenade and release it quickly and accurately it just gets ridiculous. I believe the Devs should add deviation or random accuracy and range with the quick release left button and the slow accurate throw with the right. Right now tossing grenades is more like working a catapult were all you have to do is put it to were you had it aimed last time and get the same exact results. Nothing hinders the accurate throw expecpt dying and its extremely annoying. Taking 4 shots to chest will not stop you from throwing a NFL QB pass to your shooter.

I fully agree. Deviation for the nades!

[Bob_Marley]

Close quaters battle is fast, brutal and deadly. Tactical gameplay does not mean slow gameplay. If you had true tactical ability you'd adjust your own tactics quickly and find a way to defeat them. Speed is not synonomas with arcade style gameplay. If you get killed because someone has managed to close with you then take you out with a hail of grenades or shooting his weapon full auto from the hip its simply his skill and tactics overcoming yours. If you're not a good CQB player, it is in fact extremely tactical to close with you and exploit your weakness.

Adapt and overcome.

[sunken]

hear hear

[Chaka]

I just hate the whole noise of the things. bang bang every second even though their not exploding anywhere near you. It ruins the whole atmosphere of the game. It would be a lot more tense if it was quite and you didn't know if the enemy was near or not. You wouldn't hear grenades going off constantly on a real battlefield. Just gun fire in the distance maybe and then you know if your near the front line or not.

[GeZe]

Originally Posted by [R-MOD]Bob_Marley

Close quaters battle is fast, brutal and deadly. Tactical gameplay does not mean slow gameplay. If you had true tactical ability you'd adjust your own tactics quickly and find a way to defeat them. Speed is not synonomas with arcade style gameplay. If you get killed because someone has managed to close with you then take you out with a hail of grenades or shooting his weapon full auto from the hip its simply his skill and tactics overcoming yours. If you're not a good CQB player, it is in fact extremely tactical to close with you and exploit your weakness.

Adapt and overcome.