Commander Changes - Feedback

[nathanator8811]

What if the commander had to authorize intel on insurgency maps for the blue markers to show up on everyones maps. What if blue friendly dots didnt show up on any map but the commanders, and he had to update friendly AO markers regularly. Little things like that would make the commander a lot more important. It would also increase realism, as no soldier really has a map which flashes blue dots on every friendly.

[gclark03]

That makes plenty of sense, Nathanator.

I realize that this is a feedback thread, but I have to take the time to ask about the status of the satellite map for squad leaders and grunts. Is there a way that we could 'cripple' the Caps Lock map for everybody but vehicle operators and the CO? Here's my idea of how it should be done:

Infantry Grunt/SL: Topographic map, only squad members and nearby vehicles (+ Command Post) shown on screen, no icons but flag areas updated

Vehicle Grunt/SL: Topographic version of present satellite map

Commander (outside of CP): Topographic map, no unit updates on screen

Commander (within CP): Present satellite map

ALL (in vehicles): Present satellite map

I apologize for making a suggestion, but I just had to find a way to rationalize the CP system for the Commander. Remove it if you wish, but can you, at least, tell us why you did not decide to limit the satellite map for everyone when you conceived the CO changes?

[unrealalex]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]fuzzhead

As previously mentioned, the commander role is not intended to be played by the "average" player.

You need to have a specific mindset in order to enjoy being a commander in v0.8.

I dont expect any serious use of the commander position on servers until a few weeks from now, when all the ruckus has died down and players have adapted to the new changes.

The new CO role is one of communication, coordination and strategy. Its NOT a glorified building foreman as was previously. If your CO is sitting in the seat and has not said a word on VOIP, he has not concept of what that role means.

Sometime I hope to run a training video or demonstration video on how to play effectively as a CO. Ive done thse videos in the past, and let me tell you the CO role (when played properly) is the most complex and challenging role out of any in PR. Picture the squad leader role and multiple the complexity and intensity by 10 times.

Those CO's that are early adopters and braving the waters, my hats off to you guys. Stick in there, more competent squad leaders will slowly fill the ranks as players adapt to the new gameplay.

CO post is a position removed from the battle, nearly all Operations Bases in maps are in an out of bounds area for the enemy, we do not encourage fixed spawn camping on any map, and are actively looking for ways against this.

Fine, I guess we have to just put up with it. Whats the point of feedback about commander changes if this is exactly what you want the commander to be like? Might as well lock this thread.

Flying planes = very tough, not for average user. Commanding = not for average user. Sniping = not for average user, etc... it seems the trend is to make things more complicated and less fun at the same time.

[OkitaMakoto]

Originally Posted by unrealalex

Flying planes = very tough, not for average user. Commanding = not for average user. Sniping = not for average user, etc... it seems the trend is to make things more complicated and less fun at the same time.

The simple fact is, not every role in the armed forces is for the average user. If one lacks any skill whatsoever, one should remain as rifleman and serve his team by firing his standard issue rifle. Thats not to say one cant become thoroughly competent and make for a superior rifleman, either.

But if you are going to request a kit or lead a squad, or even more so an entire team, you sure as hell better be better than average when it comes to skill at using the weapon.

Autorifleman got a nice overhaul with its deployable mode in .8. If you cant stand the fact that as autorifleman it is your role to lay down prone and fire as your squad moves and flanks.

Medic got a nice overhaul, and with the new spawning system in later PR versions, the medic has become a very necessary man in any squad. At the same time, he is a very important role and he needs to be quite skilled at what he does. He needs to be able to assess when a life is worth saving, if it is even saveable at all. Many people who take medic simply run out into a street with no covering fire, no smoke, and end up dieing 9 tims out of every 10 revive attempts.

PR is slowly becoming a game where you need to start finding little niches. Most people do this anyway. You think "Oh, I enjoy medic and Im not too bad at it" so you work at it and become even better. Soon its nearly all you play as. PR shouldnt be a game where you load up and say "Hey, this kit looks cool ima take it and pwn nooblets with it." You should tell your SL what you are effective with, ask what he needs, and go from there. I personally nearly rip my own hair out when I ask someone what kits they are good with and they say "Oh, idk, Im new, I just wanted to try the sniper out" then come bounding around the corner from the firebase with a ghillie suit :P

This should be no different from the commander role. In fact, the commanders role is even more important because it determines the way in which the entire battle will be fought. It needs to be a role in which only the few take it and do it with 100% effectiveness.

If they arent any good, give them time, they will learn. If they are utterly horrible, maybe its better to not have a commander that round, and thats unfortunate, but as fuzz said, there will be those who really enjoy bossing the whole team around, and as .8 becomes more natural to everyone, more SL will listen to their commander and more commanders will be competent in what they are doing

[Harrod200]

In .75 I was Commander fairly often, and most would say I did the job quite well. After one round commanding in .8, I can safely say I won't be doing it again.

Thank god a Commander isn't neccecary anymore for Bunkers/FBs, since the way it is, I can't see anyone stepping up to the plate very often.

[Engineer]

Odd, I had a great round being a commander yesterday. VOIP'ed Inf and Transport squads really made it enjoyable to direct people. If some squad had needs for transport, just call in transport and everything would work.

As the gameplay has slowed down, the CO has much more time to think and command people now. I liked it yesterday, probably going to give it an other try.

Of course, you really need VOIP squads to enjoy being a CO... That hasnt changed.

[<<SpanishSurfer>>]

Fuzzhead I'm not sure why you would get so defensive on a thread created to establish the publics first impression of the new commander role.

A small minority of people may like the new commander role but from what I've gathered from playing/talking/reading is that most do not. One of the problems I've seen is that the commander is now micromanaging squads in a battle. A good commander shouldn't bark orders every 10 sec. He/She is there to organize the team and let which squad know what they're attacking or defending all while establishing firebases/bunkers. The micromanaging should be left up to the squad leaders. I thought you guys had balanced the commander role pretty well in the last version. It was close to a RTS with the issuing of orders and having assests built. Many great additions to the mod but the commander role took a wrong turn.

[daranz]

I like how the commander position is now no longer just a glorified engineer who is responsible for building bunkers. That always annoyed me in previous versions of PR: commanders would concentrate on building theme parks with their squads of helpers, and the rest of the team would go about their own business.

I also like the new spotting system. Persistent markers that can be arbitrarily placed on the map make it easier for the commander to relay intelligence, not only to SLs but to squad members as well. With the map grids in place, the commander can effectively mark contact reports that people type out in chat, thereby giving everyone a much clearer picture of the situation. SLs have the added benefit of being able to mark stuff directly, which also helps, although the markers don't really have to be all that precise.

What I don't really like that much is being tied to the command post. While I see how it might be good to encourage commanders to command instead of trekking all over the map, I do find it limiting. Sometimes, I just want to look at a situation myself, instead of having to rely on sketchy reports of SLs. Commanding from FBs or command vehicles sounds like a good idea to me.

.8 makes it somewhat easier to coordinate between squads without having to go through the commander. This can make the commander feel a bit redundant. Though, I don't see this as a game problem; it's more of a player problem. If a commander is good at what he does, he can make communication between players much easier. While it's entirely possible to coordinate airlifts without commander's participation, going through the commander can be faster and easier. The problem is, unless the commander gets people to communicate with him, they are going to keep going over his head, making him useless.

Overall, I like the new commander position. It's a very teamwork and communication oriented role, as it should be. It's effective when people talk to each other and use it properly, and completely useless if everyone's in BF2 smacktard mode.

[yakuz]

If these changes came from realism ideas they are very strange, what sort of commander can't carry a map and a radio outside of a CP and take it to a truck or FOB.
I think he should be able to communicate and use his map in trucks,bunkers and within a certain distance of friendly CP. This would help to keep him out of combat but allow him to move around the map

[TeRR0R]

I don't like the new commander role.
Watching moving dots for 2 hours is really boring.
Even if you have something to do in the meantime. It's boring most of the time. And I don't have the feeling, that i really help my team as I did in .75.

There should be more benefit to have a commander.