Breacher Class Problems

[ComradeHX]

Originally Posted by Chuva_RD

ok, describing situation. You need to kill me in T-shape, of course I above you. I'm staying in the usual room for coreving stairs and see only stairs. Surely I'm in more safe position comparing to guy on stairs. You can't see me, you only know what I'm in this room. If someone goes on stairs in T-shape I usually shoot him.

So there are two ways for you: step on ladder and risk your life or throw grenade from safe place and than engage not worrying about me for 2 seconds. What's you choose? Let's start from that all movements and all actions must be done with minimal damage and risk for you and maximum damage for me.

I'm just reading your posts, thinking about words you say and not understanding: is this man ever played PR at least once on public in CQB?

Or third way: tell teammate to throw grenade up.
In that case you can't even charge out as grenade is thrown; because I'm aiming at you instead of trying to pull out shotgun after throwing grenade.

Have you ever played PR with a squad?

[[R-CON]​Chuva_RD]

Originally Posted by ComradeHX

Have you ever played PR with a squad?

Nope. Just like you.

[ComradeHX]

Originally Posted by Chuva_RD

Nope. Just like you.

Your assumption about me is completely incorrect.

Go back to Call of dooty.

Every class has what it can/cannot do and a role in a squad; Breacher currently has too many things it can do, that's why grenade should be removed for all breacher with shotgun.

[Brooklyn-Tech]

Originally Posted by ComradeHX

Your assumption about me is completely incorrect.

Go back to Call of dooty.

Every class has what it can/cannot do and a role in a squad; Breacher currently has too many things it can do, that's why grenade should be removed for all breacher with shotgun.

when people show off their ignorance and stupidity, I'll just let them continue speaking.

[Rudd]

ad hominem arguements aren't appropriate, discuss the issue or don't post please

if you feel another user's post isn't appropriate, use the moderation options button on the top right of the post

[ComradeHX]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn-Tech

when people show off their ignorance and stupidity, I'll just let them continue speaking.

That's why you are still allowed to post.

Why are you still posting? Your bad post has already been proven to be bad by photo of soldier kicking down door with rifle that has acog mounted.

Time to write that letter to DEVs about removing ironsights.

[Geronimo]

Hmmm, what about giving the ALT breacher the iron sights back and keeping the scope for the STD breacher?

From my perspective, my squad enjoys the new breacher because there are maps where you need both a scope and a breacher. (Khamisiyah for example) However I also miss the old MEC-breacher. The open sighted G3 was great.

By the way this thread is about the removal of the Iron sight rifles from the breacher, not about taking away frag-grenades from him. It's funny how one guy managed to hijack this thread with the first reply without any notice. Comradehx, are you a ninja?

[gamma_gandalph]

I didn't really mean to support either side on this issue with the photos I posted, I merely wanted to point out that "breachers" with scopes are not unheard of.

Anyways, I think kits should be mostly a matter of gameplay decisions anyways and not a reflection of actual soldiers loadouts. Of course, don't give them too much stuff the actual armies don't use, but if you start pointing out a specific loadout isn't realistic that same argument can be made for all of them. I don't think any loadout is particularly realistic, because all of that equipment would not be used even remotely how we use it in PR every day.

As for the other point made in this thread, the question of wether the breacher is overpowered: assuming what baseline? The standard rifleman? In that case every single kit apart from the crewman and the pilot, is overpowered.

IF you really want to balance the kits against each other more, I would rather suggest making the rifleman "better". E.g. add one more grenade, give him two ammobags or make his gun settle a bit faster. But to be honest, I don't believe balancing kits against each other should even be an issue. As long as they all work together properly and no single kit is a win-button (AR with grenadelauncher, rope, AA and HAT), everything is fine.

[Brooklyn-Tech]

Like Liam im disappointed by the lack of variety in the spawn menu.

through the medic and specialist we had the option to choose from whichever CQB weapon we preferred. Now everything is "dumbed" down to the "Scope vs. Red Dot". People which preferred close engagements learned to love those kits while those which liked longer engagements learned to love kits such as the grenadier or AR.

A bunch of "long range guys" will be using these kits with the mindset of a long rage weapon/kit that comes with "free C4's or a bunch of patches". If you use a tool with the mindset of another tool, you will never use that tool to its truest potential.

sometimes making things "one size fits all" makes them uncomfortable for everyone.

Not to mention that this hinders diversity among kits and the "personality" of each kit. Why were all these weapon models created if everything will essentially boill down to "acog vs. eotech"???

[ComradeHX]

Originally Posted by gamma_gandalph

IF you really want to balance the kits against each other more, I would rather suggest making the rifleman "better". E.g. add one more grenade, give him two ammobags or make his gun settle a bit faster. But to be honest, I don't believe balancing kits against each other should even be an issue. As long as they all work together properly and no single kit is a win-button (AR with grenadelauncher, rope, AA and HAT), everything is fine.

That's why Breacher kit needs grenades taken away.
(of course there needs to be ironsight rifle option; I assume it's not in because it's extra work to add another kit to the menu)

It does too many things like an "I win" button.
Dutch one even has suppressor. We took out the SF kit from early days for many reasons.

Most kits have obvious downsides which makes them squad-dependent to function well.

Rifleman's weakness is that it has nothing special other than ammobag, which is for supporting other squadmate(because if you stand on your own ammobag; you can't get much out of it).
It's also supposed to be weaker since it's not a limited kit.
SL is basically rifleman without ammobag; given a pistol(now it's useless because deviation on rifle is not as ridiculous as before) but 3 patches, no shovel.
Medic has no grenades/shovel.
AR has no grenades(usually) and is more cumbersome in cqb(slower sight-in time...etc.).
Marksman is less effective in cqb; also no nades.
LAT has rocket and nades; but rocket is one-shot(only overpowered LAT kit is U.S. one that has either two laws or one AT-4 that one-shots APC more often than not).
HAT has no magnifying optics(most of them anyway).
Spotter kit is kind of useless in a squad that has a SL and breacher.
Sniper kit is the most terrible kit to have with a full squad.
MG kit is even less usable in cqb than AR.

Those are all either squad-dependent or extremely situational(sniper + spotter).

What's the problem with Breacher? He already has magnifying optics, nades and shovel, but also has rope, c4, and shotgun(except Russian one). That's clearly too much stuff; breacher kit is a kit that is less dependent on squad than squad is dependent on it.

Originally Posted by Brooklyn-Tech

Like Liam im disappointed by the lack of variety in the spawn menu.

through the medic and specialist we had the option to choose from whichever CQB weapon we preferred. Now everything is "dumbed" down to the "Scope vs. Red Dot". People which preferred close engagements learned to love those kits while those which liked longer engagements learned to love kits such as the grenadier or AR.

A bunch of "long range guys" will be using these kits with the mindset of a long rage weapon/kit that comes with "free C4's or a bunch of patches". If you use a tool with the mindset of another tool, you will never use that tool to its truest potential.

sometimes making things "one size fits all" makes them uncomfortable for everyone.

Not to mention that this hinders diversity among kits and the "personality" of each kit. Why were all these weapon models created if everything will essentially boill down to "acog vs. eotech"???

The problem is that you thought that one kit that is supposedly "close range" should not be used for "long range".

Because if you simply put "close range" and "long range" kit (and they are not to be used out of their "intended" role) together in one squad; the squad will be come separated and harder to control.

Btw, conventional forces don't like issuing different kinds of weapon; you get your basic rifle, and if you are lucky you get to choose which sight to use.
Basic training is designed to take "personality" out of you.
Everyone(even medic, that was the old argument for medic getting magnified optics; now they do) is a rifleman first and foremost(except pilot and crewman).
It makes sense for Breacher kit to be up front shooting instead of being forced to watch the rear(when it had no magnifying optics), medic is more suited for that job for obvious reasons.

There's nothing wrong with one kit that fits many situations; but it's wrong if it's too good in too many situations(the way breacher kit is now, with magnified optics and many of them with BUIS system).

If you wanted "personality" then you should have been playing Insurgents/Taliban/Militia. Plenty of "personality" there(mostly just close range).