Nade spam ruins .7 tactical infantry combat

Wolfe · 2008-01-05, 11:16

Finally! PR.7 offers the best ballistics and firefights we've seen, only to have it completely ruined by constant nade spamming on close quarters maps like OGT, Bi Ming, and others. It results in the same infantry tactic every time:

1. See enemy
2. Fire 1-3 shots
3. Go prone, lob grenades
4. Die, respawn, repeat

Now multiply that by 64 people, nearly all of whom are carrying grenades. Now multiply that times an average of 5-20 deaths per map and realize that on any given CQB map, well over 100 grenades are being tossed wildly in hopes of scoring a cheap kill as soon as they get close. If you don't believe me, count the number of nades you hear. Bam. ... Bam... Bam Bam...... Bam.... Better yet, count the number of times you die from a grenade on close quarters maps. It's ridiculous.

The constant barrage of nades ruin solid teamwork and tactics as your squad is wiped out by 2, 3, 4 grenades tossed in your direction after the enemy missed their first few shots. Need to assault that trench? Put those guns away men! Toss nades until their dead.

Effective? Yes.
Good gameplay? No.

According to PR's "military advisers", it may be realistic for most soldiers to carry a supply of nades, but realistic soldiers do not respawn with a full supply of them every few minutes, making nades nearly infinite. If someone can explain how that's good for the game...

Remove nades from all kits except rifleman (ammo bag/non scope)
Reduce nade supply to 1 or 2 MAX.

Bam.

Brood · 2008-01-05, 11:25

I honestly don't have this problem. I find that most engagements are long range engagements though. Or from behind hard cover, so nades aren't really a huge problem.

<1sk>Headshot · 2008-01-05, 11:28

It's not just that most soldiers carry grenades but also most armies train soldiers to effectively "nade spam". If they think a guy could be in a building they're sure as hell gonna' grenade it to hell before risking going in.

Heskey · 2008-01-05, 11:30

I don't experience nade 'spam', and I expect to have nades lobbed at my feet inside a concealed building.

I have had lots of grenades go off near me (or at least I think they were near me), but all the suceeded in doing was giving me a bit of a start.

Outlawz7 · 2008-01-05, 11:31

well, lol, now they realize.
I already suggested, that amount of grenades should be reduced in half, like it was in 0.5, current classes carrying four should have two and those with two should have one.

I nade spam a lot, but that's because there is no delay on throwing the grenade, you can switch to grenades, throw and switch back to the gun while running, plus a lot of times an enemy will wtfinstaprone, so the only way to get rid of them is to throw grenades at them, so they try to run away when already prone and get caught in the blast.

Brood · 2008-01-05, 11:35

Well in all fairness Wolfie is talking about CQB maps, not open maps. Open maps make up the majority of PR's environments, in enclosed environments the trick is not to sit on chokepoints that are going to get naded. Instead you have to fall back to a point at which you can cover key locations, rather that sitting right on top of them.

I think people more or less put themselves in a position where they are going to get naded. You just have to avoid doing this.

Heskey · 2008-01-05, 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brood

I think people more or less put themselves in a position where they are going to get naded. You just have to avoid doing this.

I'd say "Aye, like dangling out of a chopper!" but... embarrasingly I've been naded out of a chopper before...

Wolfe · 2008-01-05, 11:40

It has nothing to do with chokepoints. Regardless of where you are, the enemy will immediately toss nades at you if they miss their first shots with a riffle.

In and of itself, it's a valid scenario, but when everyone does it to everyone else.... ugh. It just dumbs down the game.

Outlawz7 · 2008-01-05, 11:46

It's a vBf2 thing to run with grenades equipped, then toss them at the first thing you see. Heck, even the bots do it in BF2 SP.
Putting the 4 second delay BEFORE you throw the grenade would help discouraging this instead of AFTER you threw it.
IMO I find throwing a grenade, then 'loading' the next one in and use it in an instant later on silly and very gamey. Since when do soldiers IRL "load" their grenades, then instathrow them at any given point?

Skullening.Chris · 2008-01-05, 11:47

Yeah, one of two things that happens to me in a face-to-face encounter:
I either get pronedive headshotted
oooor
they take a few shots/miss, I take a few shots/miss, we both hit the ground and we both see each other's nade flying toward us at the exact same time :\

Agree 1000% with Outlawz, nade delay should be BEFORE!!!!

2008-01-05, 11:16	#1
Wolfe Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,056 United States of America	Nade spam ruins .7 tactical infantry combat Finally! PR.7 offers the best ballistics and firefights we've seen, only to have it completely ruined by constant nade spamming on close quarters maps like OGT, Bi Ming, and others. It results in the same infantry tactic every time: 1. See enemy 2. Fire 1-3 shots 3. Go prone, lob grenades 4. Die, respawn, repeat Now multiply that by 64 people, nearly all of whom are carrying grenades. Now multiply that times an average of 5-20 deaths per map and realize that on any given CQB map, well over 100 grenades are being tossed wildly in hopes of scoring a cheap kill as soon as they get close. If you don't believe me, count the number of nades you hear. Bam. ... Bam... Bam Bam...... Bam.... Better yet, count the number of times you die from a grenade on close quarters maps. It's ridiculous. The constant barrage of nades ruin solid teamwork and tactics as your squad is wiped out by 2, 3, 4 grenades tossed in your direction after the enemy missed their first few shots. Need to assault that trench? Put those guns away men! Toss nades until their dead. Effective? Yes. Good gameplay? No. According to PR's "military advisers", it may be realistic for most soldiers to carry a supply of nades, but realistic soldiers do not respawn with a full supply of them every few minutes, making nades nearly infinite. If someone can explain how that's good for the game... Remove nades from all kits except rifleman (ammo bag/non scope) Reduce nade supply to 1 or 2 MAX. Bam.

2008-01-05, 11:25	#2
Brood Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 227 Australia Location: Brisbane/Queensland	I honestly don't have this problem. I find that most engagements are long range engagements though. Or from behind hard cover, so nades aren't really a huge problem.

2008-01-05, 11:28	#3
<1sk>Headshot Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 893 United Kingdom Location: Edinburgh	It's not just that most soldiers carry grenades but also most armies train soldiers to effectively "nade spam". If they think a guy could be in a building they're sure as hell gonna' grenade it to hell before risking going in.

2008-01-05, 11:30	#4
Heskey Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,505 United Kingdom Location: Lancashire	I don't experience nade 'spam', and I expect to have nades lobbed at my feet inside a concealed building. I have had lots of grenades go off near me (or at least I think they were near me), but all the suceeded in doing was giving me a bit of a start.

2008-01-05, 11:31	#5
Outlawz7 Retired PR Developer Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 17,149 Slovenia Blog Entries: 12	well, lol, now they realize. I already suggested, that amount of grenades should be reduced in half, like it was in 0.5, current classes carrying four should have two and those with two should have one. I nade spam a lot, but that's because there is no delay on throwing the grenade, you can switch to grenades, throw and switch back to the gun while running, plus a lot of times an enemy will wtfinstaprone, so the only way to get rid of them is to throw grenades at them, so they try to run away when already prone and get caught in the blast.

2008-01-05, 11:35	#6
Brood Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 227 Australia Location: Brisbane/Queensland	Well in all fairness Wolfie is talking about CQB maps, not open maps. Open maps make up the majority of PR's environments, in enclosed environments the trick is not to sit on chokepoints that are going to get naded. Instead you have to fall back to a point at which you can cover key locations, rather that sitting right on top of them. I think people more or less put themselves in a position where they are going to get naded. You just have to avoid doing this.

2008-01-05, 11:40	#8
Wolfe Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,056 United States of America	It has nothing to do with chokepoints. Regardless of where you are, the enemy will immediately toss nades at you if they miss their first shots with a riffle. In and of itself, it's a valid scenario, but when everyone does it to everyone else.... ugh. It just dumbs down the game.

2008-01-05, 11:46	#9
Outlawz7 Retired PR Developer Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 17,149 Slovenia Blog Entries: 12	It's a vBf2 thing to run with grenades equipped, then toss them at the first thing you see. Heck, even the bots do it in BF2 SP. Putting the 4 second delay BEFORE you throw the grenade would help discouraging this instead of AFTER you threw it. IMO I find throwing a grenade, then 'loading' the next one in and use it in an instant later on silly and very gamey. Since when do soldiers IRL "load" their grenades, then instathrow them at any given point?

2008-01-05, 11:47	#10
Skullening.Chris Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,407 Location: Alamo City	Yeah, one of two things that happens to me in a face-to-face encounter: I either get pronedive headshotted oooor they take a few shots/miss, I take a few shots/miss, we both hit the ground and we both see each other's nade flying toward us at the exact same time :\ Agree 1000% with Outlawz, nade delay should be BEFORE!!!!