What went "wrong" with PR 0.7

[PMWedge]

I play PR since version 0.5 and playing this mod included some of the most intense and most rewarding moments in my entire computer player life (which startet with the C64).

I used to like Vanilla BF2 for its "tactical" gameplay but had no idea what would be possible if some guys start to make a mod which aims for simulating battle. Now I play, like a lot of other people, PR 0.7 and I face, like a lot of other people, a lot of frustrating or even boring moments.

For myself I discovered two main reasons for this that I would like to share:

1. Teamplay got worse

This is an already often discussed issue which seems to worry a lot of loyal players. But what are the reasons? It is rather unlikely that the skill level of the players decreased over time or that the new version attracts more noob-players than the earlier, less simulation-like did. I think, that a "malfunction" of PR 0.7 is, that it forces players to build squads more than ever before. It is almost nonsense to play PR 0.7 without being in a squad.

And while this is basically a good idea, it leaves no room at all for players who prefer to be a "lone wolf". Obviously this doesn´t mean that these players turn their back on PR, no, they are now squad members, who behave like lone wolfs! Leaving a small room for lone wolfs results in squads with people who like to be in a squad. And while rewarding moments are much more likely in a squad for most of the players, a game like PR only has to make sure that this is still true (in Vanilla BF2 the benefits of squad-play vs lone wolf were comparatively low).

To make the squad-experience as good as it was, PR 0.7+ should leave a little room for those who just want to walk around. I am sure, that these people will never reach a significant count, while squads will consist of people who want to play in a squad.

2. Maps got too "realistic"

Flying in low with a Little Bird, find a place to disembark without getting instantly killed and immediately heading on to intense close-quarter-combat in Muttrah was simply amazing. And from my perspective it should be possible even with most of the new - even more realistic - rules. CQC is a reality in many of the recent conflicts, it is tactically demanding and due to its intesity a lot of fun to play. PR 0.5 had a great mixture of maps with quite different characteristics, while I feel that PR 0.7 maps got more "serious" to increase the level of realism.

I don´t want to be misunderstood: I appreciate the high level of realism, but I think PR should not become a training tool for upcoming tank drivers. I feel that the very heart of each combat game / simulation is - especially to get a true connection to your squadmate - the infantry part - and this part feels worse in PR 0.7 compared to PR 0.5.

I am very excited in seeing where PR will develop. But I think the marginal revenue of adding more realism is already now smaller than the marginal costs of subtracting computer gaming fun...

[=Romagnolo=]

IMO the 0.7 game play is nice, the only problem is that we dont have more maps.

[Rhino]

hey and welcome to the forums.

I like you feel the same way, thou you have identified the problem with teamplay has gotten simply worse overall, your theory for why I would disagree with, as there are a bunch of simple reasons to prove it wrong like there was hardly any players not in a squad in both v0.5 and v0.6, like there is in v0.7, a max of 5 at a time which dont even make up a squad

The main reason for why teamplay has gotten worse is one simple reason, the squad leader spawn was removed. This has made players not be able to easily stick with there squad, if they die they spawn far back at there RP which could be quite far away and thats if they have a RP as it can easily be taken out if set, or they spawn back at the main base, really far away from the squad. In v0.5 you could always get teamplay but now in the latest version you have to work soo hard to be with your squad that alot of players simply now do not bother to put that effort in.

As for your second point, well Muttrah v1 was good, but the mod simply out grew it, just wait for Muttrah v2 coming up for v0.8

[Expendable Grunt]

Another one of these? I thought these had stopped after that one thread was locked, the one starting "As we all know, .7 was a blunder...".

[ratlover232]

I don't think it should be locked, he wasn't offensive or rude, he is just making a point. And I hate to say it, but I have to agree with him. I have had less true teamwork experiences in .7 than in any other version that I can remember. I think it has a lot to do with a lack of overall cohesion, the massive maps, and the lack of light transport vehicles. If I could pick one thing about .7 to change, it would have to be the addition of more light vehicles(Hummers, Vodnik, Nanjing, etc) I think that the lack of easily accesable transport prevents the rapid series of conflicts that made PR great. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy tactical, slow paced battles, but the logistics of keeping a squad together is nearly impossible when there is no rapid means of movement save for APC's (Which people seem to think are only used for fire support) and Commander trucks (Which people regard as more as construction trucks than transports. Also, they are fairly unweildly) I am really looking forward to the new version of PR, .75? I hope that this issue can be corrected. Also, I think the vBF2 maps need to go. They were not designed with PR in mind, and I have had nothing but poor experiences on them. Perhaps this is a decision for the server admins rather than the dev's, but I think it needed to be said. I love PR, but it has changed a great deal in the last two versions, and I can't honestly say all the changes have been for the better. Keep up the good work Devs, I throw a great deal of props to you all for the time and effort you put into this mod.

*One quick note, I think that the community seems to have slightly fractured with the addition of the community mods. I agree that these are great, but it seems like with each group of talent carrying their own personal agenda, progress is slowing down. Perhaps we should combine them, and have a real communal pool of talent for all to enjoy?*

[Rhino]

Originally Posted by ratlover232

If I could pick one thing about .7 to change, it would have to be the addition of more light vehicles(Hummers, Vodnik, Nanjing, etc) I think that the lack of easily accesable transport prevents the rapid series of conflicts that made PR great.

there was no more light transport in v0.5 or older versions than there is in v0.7, and all it would do is encourge more of the "car dumping" we see where a guy grabs a car, drives off on his own then dumps the car next to where his squad is and keep on playing with his squad. The fact is that you dont need the transport if you spawned on your SL in the first place.

[Brummy]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Rhino

there was no more light transport in v0.5 or older versions than there is in v0.7, and all it would do is encourge more of the "car dumping" we see where a guy grabs a car, drives off on his own then dumps the car next to where his squad is and keep on playing with his squad. The fact is that you dont need the transport if you spawned on your SL in the first place.

Rhino..

[Vapor.Trail]

I agree to a degree that with each new release, PR becomes more diminished in the "fun factor" and instead increases on the "frustration" level. With no offense intended, I think that the DEVs are focusing too much on getting the game as "realistic" as possible, which is in no way wrong as doing so stays true to the spirit of the mod, but in consequence of doing so, they make many of the mod's characteristics dragged out, frustrating and inconvenient on the practicality level for a video game. The BF2 engine limitations point to the fact that PR can only get so close to reality and that ultimately it will still be filled with immutable non-realistic elements characteristic to a video game. I feel that there needs to be a restoration of certain elements that contribute to the characteristic fun of a successful video game, which can appeal to new players and keep them engaged (thereby expanding the mod community). Imo, if the mod continues its current trend of turning a blind eye to the elements that make a video game "fun" then I foresee the inevitable collapse of the mods popularity to arrive much sooner. I think that the DEVs really need to give a second thought on the idea of "balance" in PR.

[Rhino]

Originally Posted by brummy.uk

Rhino..

no that is really how I feel, yes the SL spawn did bring some crappy tactics like get your SL to hang back and hide when his squad spawned on him, but the fact still remains it played a huge fundamental role in keeping any type of squad, being a squad of total noobs with a vet SL or a bunch of vets, it kept the squad playing together all the time which now lost has destroyed alot of the fun in PR for alot of players including myself.

[ratlover232]

Yeah, I think spawning on SL was cheap, but it made the game fun. I cant really tell which I like more, the gameplay of SL spawning, or the realism of non-SL spawning.