WW2 planes weapon loadouts

InfantryGamer42 · 2022-01-09, 19:34

First, let me congratulate on another great PR update. Addition of WW2 planes is extremely welcomed one.

But, I want to make thread primarily about weapon loadout of Bf 109 (but also other planes by extension). Currently, Bf 109 has three weapon slots (MG-151, MG-131 and 250kg bomb) which you need to switch around to get one of them on the line. This is not at all issue when we talk about 250kg bomb, but it is issue when we talk about air to air armament of Bf 109. While it is true that on WW2 fighters that had different caliber guns you did had ability to fire them separately (like in case of Bf 109 having both 13mm MGs and 20mm guns), you could also fire them together, as you wanted to achieve maximal firepower in aerial combat. In current weapon loadout of Bf 109 you can not do that.

As such, considering both gameplay and "realism" (he he meme word by now) much better weapon loadout of Bf 109 would be if MG131 was primary weapon that you could fire always, while in same time you had ability to switch between MG151, 250kg bomb (and possible all inactive) in same way how old modern jet loadout function whit gun+radar off, gun+AA missiles and gun+bombs. Same applies for P-51 and Ju-87, where you should have ability to fire guns and rockets/bomb in same time by chose.

Second, much smaller issues is lack of dedicated fighter only planes (current ones whit there loadouts can be classified as fighter-bombers or strike fighters even). Going in the direction of Falklands whit much clearer difference of different plane classes and roles should be made in WW2. Having 1 (or even 2 on future maps) fighter(s) only (aka planes without air to ground weapons) whit shorter respawn time (10-15 minutes) would be great addition from both gameplay and balance perspective on some plane heavier maps (3+ planes per team).

[R-DEV]Mats391 · 2022-01-09, 20:39

The Messerschmidt already wins about 90% of dogfights. I dont think shooting both guns at same time will improve that

InfantryGamer42 · 2022-01-09, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mats391

The Messerschmidt already wins about 90% of dogfights. I dont think shooting both guns at same time will improve that

Considering that P-51 should fire 6 .50 and it currently looks like it fires only 2, you can say there is a lot of room to balance this further.

[R-DEV]Mats391 · 2022-01-09, 22:11

Yea, seems we need to increase that. One M2 shoots at 600 rpm, P51 shoots at 900rpm and shoots 2 guns at same time, so basically its shooting 3 guns. Need to increase it to 1800 RPM, then it has ROF of all guns shooting

InfantryGamer42 · 2022-01-09, 22:37

Is there any reason why you can not get 6x .50cal firing? Considering 750-850 rpm of IRL AN/M2, 900rpm in game could be considered great buff for P-51 compared to Bf 109 if you allow it to fire both 20mm and 13mm.

[R-DEV]Mats391 · 2022-01-10, 06:53

We could set RPM to that of one gun and then change batchSize to 6. That way each shot would fire 6 projectiles, however they would all come from one barrel rather than all 6 at once
Edit: Will try out a concept to fake having all 6 guns shoot at once. In reality it would be one gun per wing each shooting a volley of 3 bullets like a shotgun. Then gonna set it to 600 or 900rpm

InfantryGamer42 · 2022-01-10, 11:02

But what is reason for this workarounds? Is there really some game/engine reason that prohibits P-51 having 6 separate .50cal MGs whit RPM of 900?

[R-DEV]Mats391 · 2022-01-10, 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfantryGamer42

But what is reason for this workarounds? Is there really some game/engine reason that prohibits P-51 having 6 separate .50cal MGs whit RPM of 900?

The engine only allows one gun per input to be active at same time.

InfantryGamer42 · 2022-01-10, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mats391

The engine only allows one gun per input to be active at same time.

Ok, I get it now. Any hope to break that engine limitation like many other you guys did?

Coalz101 · 2022-01-10, 12:47

As we're on the topic of weapon loadouts, I honestly was expecting p51s with varying loadouts on the same map similarly to how we have multiple variants of a jet (ASF, Multirole, CAS). One p51 with bombs one with rockets and another with guns only. I think that'll balance the fact that rockets can't do shit unless its a direct hit to armor. I believe the G-6 also use to carry 2 anti tank rockets, so that will add some variation to the ww2 aircraft theater.

2022-01-09, 19:34	#1
InfantryGamer42 Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 493 Yugoslavia	WW2 planes weapon loadouts First, let me congratulate on another great PR update. Addition of WW2 planes is extremely welcomed one. But, I want to make thread primarily about weapon loadout of Bf 109 (but also other planes by extension). Currently, Bf 109 has three weapon slots (MG-151, MG-131 and 250kg bomb) which you need to switch around to get one of them on the line. This is not at all issue when we talk about 250kg bomb, but it is issue when we talk about air to air armament of Bf 109. While it is true that on WW2 fighters that had different caliber guns you did had ability to fire them separately (like in case of Bf 109 having both 13mm MGs and 20mm guns), you could also fire them together, as you wanted to achieve maximal firepower in aerial combat. In current weapon loadout of Bf 109 you can not do that. As such, considering both gameplay and "realism" (he he meme word by now) much better weapon loadout of Bf 109 would be if MG131 was primary weapon that you could fire always, while in same time you had ability to switch between MG151, 250kg bomb (and possible all inactive) in same way how old modern jet loadout function whit gun+radar off, gun+AA missiles and gun+bombs. Same applies for P-51 and Ju-87, where you should have ability to fire guns and rockets/bomb in same time by chose. Second, much smaller issues is lack of dedicated fighter only planes (current ones whit there loadouts can be classified as fighter-bombers or strike fighters even). Going in the direction of Falklands whit much clearer difference of different plane classes and roles should be made in WW2. Having 1 (or even 2 on future maps) fighter(s) only (aka planes without air to ground weapons) whit shorter respawn time (10-15 minutes) would be great addition from both gameplay and balance perspective on some plane heavier maps (3+ planes per team).

2022-01-09, 20:39	#2
[R-DEV]Mats391 PR:BF2 Lead Developer Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 7,576 Germany Location: Muenster Blog Entries: 6	Re: WW2 planes weapon loadouts The Messerschmidt already wins about 90% of dogfights. I dont think shooting both guns at same time will improve that
	Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire

2022-01-09, 22:11	#4
[R-DEV]Mats391 PR:BF2 Lead Developer Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 7,576 Germany Location: Muenster Blog Entries: 6	Re: WW2 planes weapon loadouts Yea, seems we need to increase that. One M2 shoots at 600 rpm, P51 shoots at 900rpm and shoots 2 guns at same time, so basically its shooting 3 guns. Need to increase it to 1800 RPM, then it has ROF of all guns shooting
	Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire

2022-01-09, 22:37	#5
InfantryGamer42 Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 493 Yugoslavia	Re: WW2 planes weapon loadouts Is there any reason why you can not get 6x .50cal firing? Considering 750-850 rpm of IRL AN/M2, 900rpm in game could be considered great buff for P-51 compared to Bf 109 if you allow it to fire both 20mm and 13mm.

2022-01-10, 06:53	#6
[R-DEV]Mats391 PR:BF2 Lead Developer Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 7,576 Germany Location: Muenster Blog Entries: 6	Re: WW2 planes weapon loadouts We could set RPM to that of one gun and then change batchSize to 6. That way each shot would fire 6 projectiles, however they would all come from one barrel rather than all 6 at once Edit: Will try out a concept to fake having all 6 guns shoot at once. In reality it would be one gun per wing each shooting a volley of 3 bullets like a shotgun. Then gonna set it to 600 or 900rpm
	Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
	Last edited by Mats391; 2022-01-10 at 07:58..

2022-01-10, 11:02	#7
InfantryGamer42 Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 493 Yugoslavia	Re: WW2 planes weapon loadouts But what is reason for this workarounds? Is there really some game/engine reason that prohibits P-51 having 6 separate .50cal MGs whit RPM of 900?

2022-01-10, 12:47	#10
Coalz101 Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 476 Trinidad and Tobago Location: Grenada (Another Island)	Re: WW2 planes weapon loadouts As we're on the topic of weapon loadouts, I honestly was expecting p51s with varying loadouts on the same map similarly to how we have multiple variants of a jet (ASF, Multirole, CAS). One p51 with bombs one with rockets and another with guns only. I think that'll balance the fact that rockets can't do shit unless its a direct hit to armor. I believe the G-6 also use to carry 2 anti tank rockets, so that will add some variation to the ww2 aircraft theater.