Why does the M1 Carbine have more recoil than the M1 Garand?

[dcm]

I did some testing, both online and off. I've come to the conclusion that the M1 carbine has about .2° more than the garand. The carbine has a recoil of about 4.1°. In comparison, the garand's recoil is about 3.9°. The 1911 is at about 4.5­­­°. Which is understandable because it's a pistol. But why give the carbine more recoil than the garand? It's already the weakest primary non-submachine gun in the game(Except for the vz.61, that's a machine pistol).

[[R-DEV]​camo]

Fixed for next patch.

[[R-CON]​Frontliner]

It currently uses the G3's preset because somebody erroneously thought that the 7.62cm diameter caliber it fires is 7.62x51mm NATO. I took the liberty of fixing it sometime yesterday evening. It will use the preset of the AKM-74M UGL with the next patch, cutting its recoil down to below half of current.

[dcm]

Originally Posted by Frontliner

I took the liberty of fixing it sometime yesterday evening. It will use the preset of the AKM-74M UGL with the next patch, cutting its recoil down to below half of current.

Very good. But why the AK UGL specifcally?

Also any chance for a damage boost? Three shot kill is a liability for a weapon of it's importance. If you ever decide to add the carbine to more kits. I dont believe anyone will actively choose to use it, unless you add some extra goodies to the kit to entice people. Kinda like how the NVA alt rifleman gets an sks and s-mines. Or taliban alt rifleman gets the enfield and a watercan.

[[R-CON]​Frontliner]

Just for testing purposes mostly, so you and others can gather on how much this improves it and if it's still lacking. I personally think it should have less than that, but I didn't want to create a new preset for it specifically, not when we're just shipping it with a hotfix/small patch.

I don't think so, it's a (soon-to-be-low recoil) pistol cartridge firing semi automatic weapon with a - for the time period - fairly high capacity. It's also a 2-shot on the chest, and chest-leg combination. It's not going to require more than improving it in the recoil department to make it more viable is what I'm thinking. It also wasn't as wide-spread use in combat as popular history and games would have you believe, which is why it's only found on a very limited number of kits, mostly serving support or specialised roles.

[dcm]

Originally Posted by Frontliner

Just for testing purposes mostly, so you and others can gather on how much this improves it and if it's still lacking. I personally think it should have less than that, but I didn't want to create a new preset for it specifically, not when we're just shipping it with a hotfix/small patch.

I believe a standard assault rifle now has about 2­.5° degrees of recoil? Been awhile since I last checked. That would ideal for the m1 carbine.

I don't think so, it's a (soon-to-be-low recoil) pistol cartridge firing semi automatic weapon with a - for the time period - fairly high capacity. It's also a 2-shot on the chest, and chest-leg combination.

2-shot you say? I've never noticed it. I did my testing in-game on live and inattentive enemies. Like snipers and machine gunners. The results that testing on co-op gave me, seem to not reflect the in game performance in standard deployment.

It's not going to require more than improving it in the recoil department to make it more viable is what I'm thinking. It also wasn't as wide-spread use in combat as popular history and games would have you believe, which is why it's only found on a very limited number of kits, mostly serving support or specialised roles.

Yes but was the carbine not the most produced american small arm of the war? I can understand limiting it certain specialist and support kits. I really do not like being LAT as americans. I always have to beg one or two people to come with me and back me up when hunting tanks. Whenever I see a friendly lat and I have the time, I try to provide assistance.

On paratrooper maps, where US faction players are forced to use the m1 carbine for non rifleman/grenadier kits. I find it very underwhelming. Those maps even before the bolt-action buff were the only ones I actually could use the kar98k on. But it always felt unfair to me. In the future will you add the M1 carbine to the grenadier kit as well? That is, of course, if you acquire the proper models. Maybe you and Forgotten Hope 2 devs can work something out. I dunno maybe swapping PR's server infrastructure code, for their weapons and models? Just a thought...

[[R-CON]​Frontliner]

Originally Posted by dcm

I believe a standard assault rifle now has about 2­.5° degrees of recoil? Been awhile since I last checked. That would ideal for the m1 carbine.

The files are unencrypted. You should rather utilize the values in there as opposed to what you've come up with/calculated so we're on page number-wise. I can't say if you're correct on this otherwise. What I CAN say however is that the game files have the amount of recoil set to X value low and Y value high.

Originally Posted by dcm

2-shot you say? I've never noticed it. I did my testing in-game on live and inattentive enemies. Like snipers and machine gunners. The results that testing on co-op gave me, seem to not reflect the in game performance in standard deployment.

Which is why you should refer to the game's files. They are the sole governor of what kind of performance you can expect(well, safe for hitreg issues and lag of both client and server, which is a completely separate topic).
Base damage of the 7.62x33mm projectile is set to 40. Multiplying that by the chest modifier of 1.7 I get 68. Adding these two gives me 108. Everything else you perceive with respect to its damage output is either you being wrong or stems from aforementioned issues.

Originally Posted by dcm

Yes but was the carbine not the most produced american small arm of the war? I can understand limiting it certain specialist and support kits. I really do not like being LAT as americans. I always have to beg one or two people to come with me and back me up when hunting tanks. Whenever I see a friendly lat and I have the time, I try to provide assistance.

ToE for the standard infantry battalions has soldiers issued mostly with Garands, if not almost exclusively: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUOz13oJnCQ
Of course once you leave home and what the army would like their soldiers to have per organisation table and enter the combat theatre, things change drastically and you'll get a mixture of anything people can find, Thompsons swapped for M1s, additional BARs, you name it. You certainly won't find me claiming that no M1 Carbines ever made it into the hands of a typical army rifle squad nor that it wasn't a reasonably prevalent gun to find. But even with that being said, it was mostly issued to rear-line troops and some of the higher rank structures - those who aren't usually fighting, company sergeants and whatnot come to mind.

Originally Posted by dcm

On paratrooper maps, where US faction players are forced to use the m1 carbine for non rifleman/grenadier kits. I find it very underwhelming. Those maps even before the bolt-action buff were the only ones I actually could use the kar98k on. But it always felt unfair to me. In the future will you add the M1 carbine to the grenadier kit as well? That is, of course, if you acquire the proper models. Maybe you and Forgotten Hope 2 devs can work something out. I dunno maybe swapping PR's server infrastructure code, for their weapons and models? Just a thought...

Don't think the Carbine had a Grenade Launcher attachment I don't see us doing that, no.

I don't think there's a push to work with FH2 on anything atm either, no.