Automatic infantry weapons underpowered.

[Crylink]

In PR:WWII the "go to" weapons are the k98, M1 Garand, and the Gewehr 43.
these weapons surpass all others in lethality ,practicality and mobility.

All of the above rilfes are 1 shot to kill rifles in contrast the the rest of weapons which arent. meaning that if 2 parties are beginning firing at each other at the same time, the party with the 1 shot to kill rifle would win. on paper this sounds logical and sensical but in practicality and gameplay it completely nullifies the rest of the available weapons.

Why would anyone pick the STG-44 over the Kar98k? For close range combat. but the problem is that the Kar98k is better at it and why? because hitting an enemy with the STG-44 doesn't undermine the ability of the enemy to accurate firing back killing you instantly even though you were first to fire.

Squad automatic weapons such as the FG42,BAR etc. , face the same problem.
they are simply not worth the effort unless youre bad at leading shots at moving targets.
Suppression in the game does not prohibit experienced players, It takes multiple hits to neutralize an enemy and takes a significant time to set up.

TL;DR , M1 Garand ,Kar98K and G43 are the only viable weapons for infantry.

[Grump/Gump.45]

I do just fine when the enemy misses and/or takes me down 99% health. A weapon is what it is, the human body is a tough thing too, just because you are shot doesn't always mean you are out of the fight. You are right, some weapons are just under powered. On the subject of why and how, the science of why you need to shoot somebody multiple times without going into medical crap, Ill use the term tiny bullets in tiny guns..

This comes down to tactics and understanding ballistics, which in game maybe could be tweaked better to the real world data sources I will provide for bullet energy at 500 M 1000 M and 1500 M for different cartridges.

I was just listening to Dakota Myers talk about shooting with 5.56 a dude 12 times before he went down saying the body was a crazy tough thing. But here is the actual crazy thing, 5.56 was completely wrong to use in military setting anyways aside from suppression.

At 500 meters 5.56 XM193 has around 100 foot pounds of energy to deliver. But .223 Remington at 500 meters 437 Foot pounds recorded at 500 meters, the same exact range. If you don't understand foot pounds look up Joule conversion on google.

The biggest problem with these differences is when firing a 5.56 NATO cartridge in a rifle chambered for 223 Rem. Due to the longer throat that the NATO chamber employs this combination will cause a 223 chambered weapon to run at approximately 65,000 psi or more. This is 10,000 psi higher than the 223’s normal functioning pressure of 55,000 psi. This is NOT safe and will cause primers to back out, or worse, cause harm to the operator, the rifle, or both.

I was just reviewing ballistics charts on the SNIPER 101 video series , so here is the criteria for selecting sniper cartridge and rifle. 500 Foot pounds of energy left over at the range of your target for un-armored human target, 1000 foot pounds for armored targets. If your target is 1500 Meters away wearing body armor, your bullet needs to have 1000 left over to penetrate it or do serious internal damage from impact.

So that means you need to have a rifle with natural armor piercing capabilities, better foot pounds of energy than .30-06 at 1000 meters(500 Ft/LBs). Like .338 Lapua(1407 ft/lbs), 7mm R.U.M (1115 Ft/lbs), .408 Chey Tac(3664 ft/lbs), .416 Barrett(4487 ft/lbs) or the old .50 BMG 750 grain (5949 Ft/pounds). Level IV Ceramic armor plates can take a few black tip .30-06 Armor Piercing at any range, but Level 3 is the most typical armor level used.

At 500 meters .30-06 is recorded at 1179 foot pounds of energy without being armor piercing black tip, capable of penetrating armor at and just slightly above 500 meters. But once you reach 1000 meters with .30-06 this drops drastically to 500 Foot pounds of energy, it is at these ranges where you would need the black tip for armored target with .30-06.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtlwoNCNnFA&t=2s



That means for a sniper selecting a bullet if he is planning a maximum range of 1500 or 2000 meters, he is going to need to know the ballistics in and out. So you get data for 500 Meters, 1000 Meters, 1500 Meters. You lose energy over distance, you lose accuracy over distance. So you have a lot of decisions to balance to make the right choice. Whether you are sniping long distance or turning somebody into a ballistics gel test dummy up close.

Not the 1911 though, I one shot people just putting them down with that. Several tactical solutions to this original issue ballistics aside. I have no issue with any weapon of any kind, I must compensate and know how to use it or get out of danger.

Prepared team mates always in view to run to so they can save me while I am the bait, which once team mate shot at we trade being the bait.

I see a lot of players get into that 50%/50% chance fight with the enemy, sitting still taking shots as each other, or killing one and not moving when 2nd enemy sees bullet impact angle after 1st man downed.

The deviation is actually very forgiving close range, whether sniper rifle or otherwise. Step one, whether you are trying to shoot it out or dodge the bullets.

Be in view of your team mates, you are now getting shot at, you are now bait, call for help, train your squad to fight by saying the right things or leading by example in earlier situations, if they can't see the enemy, shoot towards his sound.

That is the least they can do to save you from getting shot at by turning the enemies attention away from you, as a distraction, you need to dodge to stay alive long enough for them to save you.

[Anglo_]

Originally Posted by Crylink

In PR:WWII the "go to" weapons are the k98, M1 Garand, and the Gewehr 43.
these weapons surpass all others in lethality ,practicality and mobility.

All of the above rilfes are 1 shot to kill rifles in contrast the the rest of weapons which arent. meaning that if 2 parties are beginning firing at each other at the same time, the party with the 1 shot to kill rifle would win. on paper this sounds logical and sensical but in practicality and gameplay it completely nullifies the rest of the available weapons.

Why would anyone pick the STG-44 over the Kar98k? For close range combat. but the problem is that the Kar98k is better at it and why? because hitting an enemy with the STG-44 doesn't undermine the ability of the enemy to accurate firing back killing you instantly even though you were first to fire.

Squad automatic weapons such as the FG42,BAR etc. , face the same problem.
they are simply not worth the effort unless youre bad at leading shots at moving targets.
Suppression in the game does not prohibit experienced players, It takes multiple hits to neutralize an enemy and takes a significant time to set up.

TL;DR , M1 Garand ,Kar98K and G43 are the only viable weapons for infantry.

I don't really see what the issue is, I understand it's an illogical paradox as if a KAR98 or Garand can one shot then a LMG and an STG should therefore do to but obviously that would just make WW2 more miserable for people if everything but the pistols and the SMGs were one shot. The point of LMG's (on paper) is to suppress which you don't you don't really get in the modern maps (they're just used as quasi snipers). The reason I like WW2 is because it promotes squad play to the max, again, while on paper PR forces tight squad play but it isn't always the case on modern maps. I can easily rack up free kills and go on rampages on modern maps because it's easy with automatic scoped rifle. On WW2 if you want to assault a position it's hard to do it alone. The WW2 beta tests back in 2015 or whatever it was were the best, it was literally like band of brothers RP, squads actually utilised their assets and used fire an maneuver to assault positions. Now everyone just moans when it's a WW2 map saying something along the lines of "Wah Wah I don't have a scope and have to actually think about stuff and not suck at shooting" then mope around and fuck around all game until their boring modern desert map #631 comes on the next round. But I digress this is now just a rant about beta male skill issue WW2 haters


In short, there's nothing you can really do about LMG's/ machine gunners being underpowered, them being a one hit kill would be aids. And furthermore as I've explained the role of machine guns isn't too score EZ long range killz but to suppress the enemy while your buddies close and kill the enemy. But I would suggest that the Thompson and the MP40 should have their recoil reduced, I never take either of them if I can. They kick like a mule and hit like a baby. If they had lower recoil it would make them useful in CQB and a good suppression bonus/ element at up to medium.

[Grump/Gump.45]

Originally Posted by Anglo_

I don't really see what the issue is, I understand it's an illogical paradox as if a KAR98 or Garand can one shot then a LMG and an STG should therefore do to but obviously that would just make WW2 more miserable for people if everything but the pistols and the SMGs were one shot. The point of LMG's (on paper) is to suppress which you don't you don't really get in the modern maps (they're just used as quasi snipers).

I frequently 1 shot un-armored factions with AK 7.62x39 to the thigh and chest, especially on Kafr Halab Ins vs Ins. WW2 machine guns can also one shot. DEVs recently within the past year or 2 did change the damage to decrease at longer distance, to my memory only on the AK, but possibly other firearms.

Even the .45cal 1911 Colt I have one shot people with. Aside from minor detail improvements from data, the weapon damage in game is pretty spot on.

I tried COD Warzone for free once, it took a full mag to the head with semi-auto of a player with 5.56 to get him off the truck turret. Not a single bullet missed. I killed him then un-installed the COD Warzone game. Be thankful.

If you want to influence the weapon damage in a game going for realism, learn to understand, search for and provide data. Turn those numbers into real life, understand tissue displacement and cavitation of wounds related to ballistics. A lot of people use full auto and don't count the bullets that miss or graze. In PR all non-submachine gun weapons can kill in 3 shots, which even then some SMGs can kill in 3 shots like the Thompson