v1.7.1 Omaha, Fields of Kassel, Brecourt Assault. Never ending rounds

[waldov]

All three of these maps, while well designed and reasonably balanced have a major glaring issue which is that they never end even when the outcome is obvious.

Fields of Kassel STD and LRG have no bleed for the US army even if they fail to take the first flag. Reality is if the US team cant take the first flag in the first 30 minutes, let alone hour they almost never win. Everyone playing knows this yet are forced to slug it out often over the 1 hour mark until the US army runs out of its huge ticket count (750-850 tickets to be exact) even when the outcome is obvious in the first 20-30 minutes of the match. Nothing is worse then fighting a game for over an hour when the outcome is obvious already.

Omaha beach STD and ALT suffers the same issue, with the US onslaught dragging on very often over the 1 hour mark as well; even when the US only manages to take a single flag. This map is actually avoided very often in mapvotes Ive noticed for this reason. The tickets counts are massive (800-900 for US) but there is no pressure with no ticket bleeds or penalties for making snail pace progress or straight up stalling as the US team. The battle just grinds down to a war of attrition that drags on till one side runs out of tickets, the German side in particular is not well rewarded for holding objectives and often theyll still lose even if they hold all but one flag just through sheer boring, long, grinding attrition as the US tanks farm massive kill counts without any pressure to risk offensive action.

Finally Brecourt Assault ALT (and STD? havent played it) suffers the same issue with the assaulting force suffering no or limited penalty for no/slow progress and the battle dragging on far too long when the outcome becomes apparent early on.



Long story short these maps all need either less tickets or more active ticket bleeds. extra No respawn Assets or Area attacks available at round start might be needed to offset some of the added pressure on the assaulting force. But as it stands these maps just end up dragging on too long and are very bad for killing server populations and becoming a chore for the players that play them out. Which is unfortunate because theyre otherwise very well designed maps which deserve more play time.

[Crylink]

Insurgency has the same problem where Bluefor can take its time while the insurgents have to wait around the cache many minutes before anything happens, and if they decide to seek out Bluefor players to kill then the cache is lightly defended.

[Coalz101]

Kinda explains why some experienced players say world war 2, CNC and INS is garbage. (Not necessarily the maps itself) The gameplay is too boring with these defense only flags/objectives. It happens sometimes on Charlies Point, Bamyan ALT and Ramiel AAS, these matches could drag on based on how the attacking faction decides to play and this is why I personally rather do assets to reduce my boredom on those kinds of maps.

[Outlawz7]

Originally Posted by Coalz101

Charlies Point, Bamyan ALT and Ramiel AAS,

All three have ticket bleed.

[Coalz101]

Let me add some more context for those maps except Ramiel, because ramiel has bleed regardless because of the flag layout but still gets boring quickly.
Bamyan and Charlie's point, attacking team could sit on first flags and not really have to worry about anything since they won't have any ticket bleed and in the case of bamyan, there's no recapping for defense team so it could drag on for hours and get exhausting. Bamyan deserves the Ramiel treatment, even though it's not on the same level as Ramiel.

[WingWalker]

Originally Posted by Coalz101

Kinda explains why some experienced players say world war 2, CNC and INS is garbage.

We do?

I know plenty of experienced players that like those, and even a defensive experience...

[waldov]

Originally Posted by Coalz101

Let me add some more context for those maps except Ramiel, because ramiel has bleed regardless because of the flag layout but still gets boring quickly.
Bamyan and Charlie's point, attacking team could sit on first flags and not really have to worry about anything since they won't have any ticket bleed and in the case of bamyan, there's no recapping for defense team so it could drag on for hours and get exhausting. Bamyan deserves the Ramiel treatment, even though it's not on the same level as Ramiel.

This is it, the bleed for attacking forces needs to be a constant threat to keep momentum I think or very often the attack will stall after the first flag and drag on as a slug fest. Capturing flags should give the Attacking force enough of a respite from ticket bleed to capture the next objective, but if they fail to do so in a certain timeframe the bleed should continue, perhaps at a reduced rate compared to the initial ticket bleed. This would encourage more aggressive and co-ordinated action from the attacking team giving us the true Assault/defense style gameplay these maps/layers intend.

PR is no stranger to using game mechanics to manipulate player behavior, this is a valid case for such mechanics imo.

[Rabbit]

Originally Posted by waldov

Omaha beach STD and ALT suffers the same issue, with the US onslaught dragging on very often over the 1 hour mark as well; even when the US only manages to take a single flag. This map is actually avoided very often in mapvotes Ive noticed for this reason. The tickets counts are massive (800-900 for US) but there is no pressure with no ticket bleeds or penalties for making snail pace progress or straight up stalling as the US team. The battle just grinds down to a war of attrition that drags on till one side runs out of tickets, the German side in particular is not well rewarded for holding objectives and often theyll still lose even if they hold all but one flag just through sheer boring, long, grinding attrition as the US tanks farm massive kill counts without any pressure to risk offensive action.

Unfortunately for Omaha it never turned out how I had hoped/ planned. Originally I wanted to have a custom German faction for the map that would only be able to get MG42s from spawn-able kits and also severely limit the amount of mg 34s you could get.

I also wanted German ammo bags in the rifleman kit severely reduced to make resupplying the AT guns, mortars and MGs quite difficult.

On top of this it was originally planned the US would get a smoke arty alternative but this unfortunately was never completed due to limitations.

Lastly there was going to be a large smoke ambient on the hills that would semi obscure LOS but this also had issues and was abandoned.

There were other ideas that I personally rejected to help the US like more blast holes on the beaches and beached landing craft on the beaches as well for cover. I opted to go for a first wave assault of the beach instead as the beached landing craft would have only made it to the waters edge anyway.