Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

[Archosaurus]

EDIT: Apology to the person in question. Please view this thread as an overall rant about situations like this, not an attack. It was not meant to be.

So I come back to PR after quite some time and join a server, which I will not name.
Full server, 9 squads, can't make my own so I decide to join a clan squad with 2 clannies in it which I won't name.
I ask them what's up and what kit they want, they say we're just defending and whatever kit is fine. Very bad sign there already but okay.

Then they decide to attack and I give them some pointers on what to do.
I get replied with "You wanna go to Hotel 7 and look at some trees?" etc.

Okay so they insist to run head on into the capzone and get murdered due to the enemies having their shit together and our team all being in one spot, fine.
We get to a treeline near the cap station and me and the SL get killed.
SL blames the enemy and our team, "I can't play the game right now" etc. and I give some pointers where the fire came from.
Probably bad luck, I was messing with my controls not paying attention so it happens.

Medic comes in, tries to revive us with low hopes, get's shot. SL blames our APC for not doing anything useful.

After we spawn in I suggest them that either they start actually moving in a smart way, flanking etc. or they let me lead.
The SL tells me "Do you even know how good I am at this game?" and I ask him if he's kidding, he says no.

The switch in my head goes off.
I've run into the douchebag.

I try to explain to them that yes, my squad leading could probably win us the game because we would get FOB's up to good positions, other squads would follow suit etc. and I get kicked from the squad.

I come back and ask if they're kidding, they tell me to make my own squad etc.
I just say fine and leave, I'm not dealing with this.

I got confident in my squadleading by listening to better players giving me advice when I was squadleading, if they can't do the same then they're not up to be a squadleader.
They just want to stick with their little 2 man clan and bash on the team, apparently.

For reference, last game I played yesterday, I suggested the SL lets me go out into the city we were defending and do my thing, which is aggressive foot recon ie: killing whole squads before they get to my squad.

He says no, but the squad was so composed and all had mics etc. so I said fine, you call the shots.

I follow with them and spot an opportunity to go out of the mosque we were in and prove my worth, so to say.

I'll check out outside and be back in a minute I said.

Full enemy squad dead later, SL said "You're doing a good job, keep doing whatever you're doing." and through me covering their East flank completely from any enemy even getting in, they could do what they want at the mosque, which was armor hunting and directing out IFV's fire. We also did a hit and run on an enemy FOB with a Humvee and they destroyed it with their own artillery, hah. GG's were had and so on.

That is when an SL recognizes that his original plan does not work as well as a squadmate's, and that the squad is competent enough to adapt. The squad I was in right now was not led by that kind of SL.

So, what do you do when the whole team is seemingly full of "Noooo, I'm the best player !" SL's?
Just leave like I did?

[Prevtzer]

Originally Posted by Archosaurus

So, what do you do when the whole team is seemingly full of "Noooo, I'm the best player !" SL's?
Just leave like I did?

Make smart-ass remarks about being the better SL and post a subtle brag thread on the forums.

[Spook]

So is this whole post based on one single bad experience you had?

Not much to say about it, there can be assholes everywhere. Best thing to do was leaving the squad as you did. And keep in mind that constantly telling a SL what he is doing wrong can really fuck up his mood even if he is generally a nice and good player. Advices are good, but if you can't live with the SL's decisions at all you better just join another one instead of making him mad through-out the round. And if the rest of the squads suck just as bad, you might want to consider to find another server.

[Archosaurus]

Originally Posted by Spook

So is this whole post based on one single bad experience you had?

Not much to say about it, there can be assholes everywhere. Best thing to do was leaving the squad as you did. And keep in mind that constantly telling a SL what he is doing wrong can really fuck up his mood even if he is generally a nice and good player. Advices are good, but if you can't live with the SL's decisions at all you better just join another one instead of making him mad through-out the round. And if the rest of the squads suck just as bad, you might want to consider to find another server.

So pretty much do what I did.

And it's not like I told him "You're bad, let me lead pls" I was mostly addressing everyone. What our team was doing was not working. I never said "Dude you suck" or anything, because in the end, it IS his squad. He's the one who brought up his own personal skill into the discussion of what we should do, and I don't think "I'm on the top" is a good enough reason to listen to someone who isn't acting like he's on the top. If he stopped blaming the team for his mistakes and did his best, I wouldn't have felt the need to say anything, you get me?

Oh and not just one, I've had many, many of these in my years of PR. This is just recent.

Originally Posted by Prevtzer

Make smart-ass remarks about being the better SL and post a subtle brag thread on the forums.

Please don't turn this thread into a bash thread. Even if you know who I'm talking about, there's no reason to go and defend them by being aggressive. I'm trying to lessen the problem via my own action, not beat bad SL's into submission.

[MADsqirrel]

Saying "I am the better player here so do what I say!" will never do any good (I know it's exaggerated) and may lead to a pointless argument between you and him with a lot butthurt (him) and you beeing annoyed.
If you do not like the squadleading style of someone, just leave the squad (thats what I do) or try to subtle manipulate him (lot of fun when it works) OR just deal with it and say "You're the boss. I will do what you want me to do." because thats what YOU expect people in your squad to do.
What do you do if someone grouches all the time about your squadleading saying he knows better what do to?
I will advise them to join another squad if they don't like what I am doing.

[HunterMed]

Make smart-ass remarks about being the better SL and post a subtle brag thread on the forums.

OT: What Spook said...
You can only try to point out IDEAS. But too often players generally think their idea is the only solution to a problem. Everybody has ideas and when the SL's idea fails it is easy to say "my" idea would have worked...
But yeah as Spook said, if it doesnt work just leave the squad. That is the democracy right there and it works pretty good mostly.

"open rebellion" in a squad is never a good way, especially saying: "let me lead" or anything of the likes.
It's pretty rude imo. You can only point out ideas and hope for the best or leave the squad.

Adressing everyone on teamchat rarely works in my experience. You are just a blue guy talking and nobody gives a crap most of the time
Sometimes you can do that with the fancy yellow chat (as CO) but best is always via Mumble on SL channel or as CO via mumble.

[Archosaurus]

Originally Posted by HunterMed

OT: What Spook said...
You can only try to point out IDEAS. But too often players generally think their idea is the only solution to a problem. Everybody has ideas and when the SL's idea fails it is easy to say "my" idea would have worked...
But yeah as Spook said, if it doesnt work just leave the squad. That is the democracy right there and it works pretty good mostly.

"open rebellion" in a squad is never a good way, especially saying: "let me lead" or anything of the likes.
It's pretty rude imo. You can only point out ideas and hope for the best or leave the squad.

Adressing everyone on teamchat rarely works in my experience. You are just a blue guy talking and nobody gives a crap most of the time
Sometimes you can do that with the fancy yellow chat (as CO) but best is always via Mumble on SL channel or as CO via mumble.

No, I didn't actually tell my team anything, I was just ADDRESSING them all, talking about them.

But yeah, I suppose that me leaving was the best I could do. I know how annoying it is to have "that guy" in your squad and I didn't want to be a bother so I just left the server entirely as it was not suiting me.
I've found that giving ideas only works if the SL is any good. But if the SL is any good, we don't have this problem.

Originally Posted by MADsqirrel

Saying "I am the better player here so do what I say!" will never do any good (I know it's exaggerated) and may lead to a pointless argument between you and him with a lot butthurt (him) and you beeing annoyed.
If you do not like the squadleading style of someone, just leave the squad (thats what I do) or try to subtle manipulate him (lot of fun when it works) OR just deal with it and say "You're the boss. I will do what you want me to do." because thats what YOU expect people in your squad to do.
What do you do if someone grouches all the time about your squadleading saying he knows better what do to?
I will advise them to join another squad if they don't like what I am doing.

I suppose.
But is there any way to make a player who is not open to even small ideas like "Let's flank them", who replies with "Your idea is stupid" or something along the lines, actually listen to you?

[Psyrus]

Originally Posted by Archosaurus

Then they decide to attack and I give them some pointers

I suggest them that either they start actually moving in a smart way, flanking etc. or they let me lead.

my squad leading could probably win us the game

if they can't do the same then they're not up to be a squadleader.

I follow with them and spot an opportunity to go out of the mosque we were in and prove my worth, so to say.

Full enemy squad dead later

Just a quick side point with regard to using the word egotistical... There's something said about rocks being thrown around glass

I agree with a lot of your points, though.

[Archosaurus]

Originally Posted by [R-CON]Psyrus

Just a quick side point with regard to using the word egotistical... There's something said about rocks being thrown around glass

I agree with a lot of your points, though.

I don't think it's egotistical.

Saying "Because I killed the enemy squad, we won!" or "if they wouldn't have let me separate, then we would have lost outright!" probably is. You never know what'd happen, and even if I'm pretty sure that out of the times when squaddies have a say in things and things go well, it's thanks to the squaddies and when they don't and things don't go well, it's probably because they don't. Just an observation, because PR squads are not as organized as in real life, and commanders don't have as much experience and training as real ones generally.

Besides that, is leaving the squad really the only way? Is there no way to persuade even the most stubborn squad leader to adapt a little? I know there's the whole "Don't like it, make your own" thing but aren't squads there so everyone has a good time, not for the SL to have a power trip?

[Heavy Death]

What I did? Havent come back to PR in ages. Because of all this. Not just what happened to you ingame but also this thread and everything else.