INS mode no longer fun

[Hresvelgr]

Well, I've been playing PR again recently for the first time in months, but I've noticed that the INS mode, especially the INS faction itself, is no longer any fun to play at all. Thing is, I never, ever get to be Coalition because before the round starts there are always a bunch of tards who switch to Coalition because they're too scared to play insurgent, and the insurgent team is usually outnumbered, which doesn't seem very realistic. And the mode itself has become something of a rape-fest.

Problems are that the people on this forum who constantly post about how the insurgents need even less usually seem to get their way. Now I will admit it has improved since 0.8, when after a while I gave up PR altogether because INS became so bad, but there are still huge flaws. Namely, not only do insurgents really lack scopes of any kind, but their guns even in ironsight mode can't hit the broad side of a barn, let alone those tiny little dudes 50m away. Now, I understand there will be lots of y'all coming in and saying "you have to ambush at close-quarters!" but that ain't always so practical, considering if you have to move (which you nearly always do) you will be seen and killed within seconds. Not to mention those roving humvees which hunt you down cruelly.

There's also the spawning problem, which goes beyond even the ludicrous civilian problems which I will address later. Insurgents have the same spawn as coalition, which isn't really so fair considering they are always outnumbered, outgunned, and outperformed in any way. Death as an insurgent is always assured, and it is a feat to survive even one firefight, let alone multiple ones. And when they get shot there is no hope for healing as few people are dumb enough to play as collaborator.

About the civis, I remember back before they had medic bags me and several others suggesting giving insurgents field kits as it was annoying to fall three feet and bleed to death, and unrealistic that city-folk wouldn't have first-aid kits. I was actually pretty disappointed when no field kits were given, but civis now had medi-packs which they could be shot for. And as justification for waiting two minutes to spawn even if you ain't done nothing wrong, the Devs and all said "Oh, we wanted to stop those human shields an' all!" Wait, ain't this PR? As in realistic? As in, human shields do exist? Also, human shields and roving civi squads weren't common at all. Once I read a comment saying now they should work in pairs, so that if one is shot the other could revive the guy. If one is shot, wouldn't they shoot the other civi too? Especially considering that using the medpack means no penalty for US? Also, someone said they should be used to lure people into traps, which worked before they were shot all the time by the new Coalition jackasses.

The US/UK in insurgency mode just gets away with too much. Now, I know that people complain that they don't win enough, but that's SOLELY because more often than not, they just waste their time hunting insurgents. Once on Korengal, me and half my team were constantly spawn-killed in the caves, but the US never made a move to destroy the cache and the round ended with not one being blown up. We won, but it still wasn't what I'd call fun just staring at a spawn screen most of the time. And when they get punished for civi-killing, just means they can't request kits for 5min, right? If only the SCOPED-RIFLEMAN wasn't a default kit...

Basically, just level the playing ground. It's a game, it ain't supposed to be "Teh US wins all the time IRL, soz you should quit whining and die already!" Return the civi-spawns to sane levels, maybe give the insurgents some damn first-aid packs like every Talib and conventional soldier has, make the AK accuracy something close to decent,etc. You could also give some zoom to the PKM. Not fair if even the Taliban can't actually suppress people. Last time I used it I couldn't tell if I was even hitting anything. Also, it'd be mighty decent if their spawntime was lowered, to simulate how insurgents are the locals, so reinforcements come much, much quicker than coalition reinforcements would. Maybe half or 2/3 or normal for insurgent spawntimes.

[John.E.Walker]

They are fixing this in .9?

and like i said in a past post GIVE THEM LOTS OF TUNNELS =D

[dtacs]

one big YES to your post...i completely agree with everything, these problems needs to be addressed before the next release.

[gazzthompson]

agree with everything OP said (except making the AK more accurate as i find it fine now, and no zoom for PKM plz).

How to fix INS (mainly iraq ins maps as taliban is fine):

Lower spawn time for INS
Limit civi and lower spawn to normal and give BLUFOR the huge spawn time for killing a civi.
more spawns.

job done, ammirite?

[Hresvelgr]

Yeah, that sounds about right. When I said maybe give PKM zoom, I was thinking like 2x rather than the normal 4x for coalition zooms, but none is okay. It was a minor annoyance. But yeah, the problem that coalition has is that INS is too easy and they easily get distracted hunting them down. Doing what you said they should do would make insurgents themselves pose a bigger threat, which would certainly motivate coalition to hunt down the caches more while still being fair. I miss the .7 gameplay element of watching out for civis and arresting them too.

[Klutz]

Originally Posted by gazzthompson

agree with everything OP said (except making the AK more accurate as i find it fine now, and no zoom for PKM plz).

How to fix INS (mainly iraq ins maps as taliban is fine):

Lower spawn time for INS
Limit civi and lower spawn to normal and give BLUFOR the huge spawn time for killing a civi.
more spawns.

job done, ammirite?

+10

Edit: User was warned for "useless/unhelpful" posting. A bit more input is needed in these forums, thank you.

[ankyle62]

I don't think it's terribly unbalanced. You have to take into consideration that they are mostly untrained people, with second hand equipment. They don't have the marksmanship instruction that american forces have, so their accuracy would be lacking compared to them. Yeah it sucks they dont have scopes, but that just means you have to use different strategies.
A little team work goes a long way. IED's, mines, and rpgs are your friends.
The problem I see is that most people run off and attack without their team.

Things I don't like. Nade traps, they kill more friendly than enemy.

Lack of sprint bar endurance, when running back and forth planting 7 IED's it gets old taking forever walking back and worth. And shooting and running doesnt work that great when you cant run that fast.

Getting stuck on curbs and having to jump killing your sprint bar sucks too.

Civis are fun, but americans should get a greater punishment for killing them. Most americans dont care about shooting them.

[Scared_420]

agree with plenty that you said except for ak accuracy and pkm zoom,, one of the biggest problems i have notcied with civis is that if you shoot them in an apc you dont get any penalty but they still have to wait 2 mins to spawn, i dunno if this is a bug or not but only idiots play as civis, they serve no purpose other than luring into traps because when they r healing you can shoot them which is quite silly

[Hresvelgr]

Yeah, a major problem the devs can't fix on their own is the every man for himself mentality, but perhaps more useful civis could do a small bit in remedying that. Another thing, not all insurgents are the random dumb city-folk who don't know nothin' 'bout no guns and such. Perhaps PR should try to focus on a specific group of insurgents, or at least decide what kind they want. Right now it just seems like stereotypical kind of guys, but they (and especially many other forum-goers) forget that there are groups like the Mahdi Army and former Iraqi Army and Fedayeen people who comprise a HUGE portion of the insurgency and have at least basic training, whether from the former regime or from Hezbollah in the case of the Mahdists. Not saying they should get scopes and stuff (though perhaps marksman kits should be more common, seen plenty of pictures of insurgents with them), but just remember that some have training and ain't yokels.

[charliegrs]

Originally Posted by ankyle62

And shooting and running doesnt work that great when you cant run that fast.

shooting and running doesnt work that great because your shooting and running. this isnt counterstrike, theres no way your going to hit anything if your moving while shooting. this isnt a problem with PR, its a simple fact of life that you gotta sit still to hit something with a gun.

anyway back on topic, theres been so many threads like this already over the years. no matter how many changes and tweaks the devs make to the insurgency side people are always going to complain because they cant get over the fact that in a lot of ways the ins are at a real disadvantage to the coalition. but you know what, the ins still wins A LOT. i dont play coalition too often, and prefer being an ins anyway but when i am an ins i really dont feel like i have much of an advantage when im closing in on a cache. especially if im up against some competent ins players.

i still feel the biggest problem with the ins faction isnt the faction itself, its alot of the players who cant get in the right mindset to use the faction effectively. and unfortuneatly not alot can be done about that.